Three days before your baby is due is the best time to start a business, right? It was for Bonnie Bowles, an estate planning lawyer and founder of Wills and Wellness in Denver, Colorado. Bonnie decided to take a family-focused approach to practicing law—she doesn’t even bill by the hour. When she shares how hard it was to relinquish some responsibility in the business, Clate shares that he thinks a vital step in the business journey is to “fall in love with delegation.” Bonnie also tells Clate and Scott about her work-life balance as an attorney, the consequences of hiring impulsively, and why “sales cures all.”
Mentioned in this episode:
“Sprint” by Jake Knapp
“The Agony and the Ecstasy” by Irving Stone
“The Go Getter” by Peter B. Kyne
Transcript:
Bonnie Bowles: I mean for a couple of years, it was a total struggle just to let someone else check the mail practically.
Scott Martineau: [Laughs]
Clate Mask: [Laughs]
Bonnie Bowles: [Laughs] But you know, it’s been really liberating because once I saw that actually play out, I was all about the delegation.
Scott Martineau: That’s Bonnie Bowles talking about the secret that she found to a successful business and a successful life. To hear more, listen to this edition of the Small Business Success podcast.
[Music playing]
Scott Martineau: Welcome to today’s episode of the Small Business Success podcast. I’m Scott Martino.
Clate Mask: And I’m Clate Mask. We’re co-founders of Infusionsoft and we’ve got Bonnie Bowles with us today. Bonnie, how’re you doing?
Bonnie Bowles: I’m great. How are you?
Clate Mask: Good. Doing great. Will you take just a minute and tell our listeners about your business?
Bonnie Bowles: Sure. So my name is Bonnie Bowles. I am a wife and a mom of three, almost four, children, and it’s actually my kiddos – my first who kinda prompted me to do what I’m doing today.
[0:01:00]
So I had been doing litigation for five or six years before she was set to arrive. But then right before she arrived, I thought, “You know, this really just isn’t a fulfilling way of life. I don’t like the adversarial nature of it and the court system and all that.”
And estate planning is everything litigation is now so I probably – yeah and in my mind that estate planning was really where my heart was, but nothing really prompts you to be very – at least for me, to be very focused and real about, you know, where your career’s headed as about to be a new parent as I was at the time. So it was literally three days before her due date. I sat down in my study with my husband and I just said, “You know, I can’t do it anymore. I’m not going to do litigation. I quit. And I know we’re about to expect a baby but I want to start a new business and I want to start this –
Scott Martineau: Oh, that’s fantastic.
Clate Mask: [Laughs]
Bonnie Bowles: law firm, doing estate planning.” And I have a very supportive husband, so he was all about it. He’s been very supportive the whole way and now we’re over four years into it.
[0:02:00]
Clate Mask: That is awesome.
Scott Martineau: Wow. Wow. That takes courage. That is a lot of emotion running through the veins of the family in such a short amount of time.
Bonnie Bowles: It is. Yes, our firm has grown over the last four years. I’ve added a partner. My family has grown ‘cause since my daughter being born, I had twin boys. So there’s a lot happening at home and at work all the time.
Scott Martineau: Wow. That is great.
Clate Mask: That is great. Thanks for sharing that with us. Thanks for talking about the personal side of it because it’s so fun to hear – you know, Scott and I love hearing why people started their businesses. And a lot of times it really is because, you know, something happens in your family life, your personal situation where the old way of doing it is just is not going to cut it anymore. You just know you can’t do that any longer. So that sounds like that was the case for you and you charted a new course, which is great.
Bonnie Bowles: Yeah. Absolutely. You know, the traditional experience for clients with attorneys is an hourly model. Clients don’t want to call the attorney. It’s the worth phone call that they ever make, and so we really try to flip that on its head and –
[0:03:00]
be the attorneys you can have a relationship with and actually want to call.
Clate Mask: [Laughs]
Scott Martineau: [Laughs] That’s great. You’re totally right ‘cause the meter’s running as soon as they pick up the phones, so no one actually wants to do that and, you know, the interesting thing is I got a bunch of friends that are attorneys and they hate billing the hours, too. They just hate it. It’s not a fun thing to bill in those six-minute increments. [Laughs]
Bonnie Bowles: So actually do everything flat fee just because we are not going to have a client worry about every call and e-mail and that kind of thing. Everything we do, the client knows in advance how much it’s going to be. And every interaction with us as far as communication goes, calls and e-mails, we do not charge for or track.
Clate Mask: Wow. That’s cool. Good for you and great for the practice that you’ve created. And sounds like you’ve got great things happening. We wanted to have you on the podcast so we could just first celebrate your success, which is really cool. We got a few questions for you though. We’d love to have you answer.
Scott Martineau: So I want to hear what that moment was like.
[0:04:00]
So you're about to have this child. You're making this decision. Did you come from a family of entrepreneurs or what? ‘Cause I mean, that’s a bold move. What was going through your head?
Bonnie Bowles: That’s a great question. So my parents, yes, were a small business owner. So I’d always seen that example set for me. They’re in the oil and gas industry so very volatile industry to be in and I saw them struggle at times and be really rewarded at times and just how their hard work really paid off and they got to live their life by their own design being a business owner.
So that inspired me, but you know, so much had to do with my husband, Tom. We met when I was actually taking a break right after law school. I was teaching ski school for a season in a little ski and golf town in northern New Mexico called Angel Fire. And I didn’t think I’d stay there long, and ended up meeting who I’m now married to, my husband Tom, and he was the chef and owner of a restaurant there in Angel Fire.
Scott Martineau: Oh, cool.
Bonnie Bowles: Yeah. I got to see him be an entrepreneur and build this thing that he really loved and poured his heart into[0:05:00]
He had his restaurant for ten years and he would still have it if it weren’t in a little ski town in the middle of nowhere where it’s really hard to raise children. So once we wanted to have children and expand our family, we shut the business down and came to Denver.
But, I mean, within a year we were back in the business, entrepreneurial mindset with my firm. He actually has been really instrumental in getting this where it is. He’s always had a bigger vision, even than me when it comes to my firm and what we can achieve here and where we’re going. He even came up with our firm name, Wills and Wellness. And there was a lot of thought behind that name and he’s the one that came up with it.
Clate Mask: That’s cool. That is great. This is why I love small business success because you said you get to design your life. It’s your life by design. You design it. You're very intentional bout what you want. And when you're successful, you have the opportunity to impact so many people around you. I just – we congratulate you on the way that you’ve approached things and –
[0:06:00]
the design and the intentionality that you’ve taken as you built your business it’s really cool.
Bonnie Bowles: Thank you.
Scott Martineau: And I think the support from our loved ones is so critical. I’ve seen situations where that’s not the case and those of our listeners who feel that support, I think it’s a good moment to just stop and appreciate that. Maybe send a text or two because it’s a critical factor.
Clate Mask: [Laughs] Or flowers
Scott Martineau: Or flowers or whatever. Yeah. Okay, so, I want to – let’s go on a little journey here. Maybe take your business over the past four years and imagine a graph. I want to hear if the graph is plotting your satisfaction and confidence in your business overtime, I want to hear about the low point and I want to hear about high point.
Bonnie Bowles: That is a great question.
Scott Martineau: Let’s start with the low point.
Bonnie Bowles: Yeah. It’s a small business so there are peaks and valleys, you know.
Scott Martineau: So there’s lots of them. If that’s the case, pick one.
Bonnie Bowles: Yeah. Exactly. You know the highest point – well, there’s been a few high points. I am – as I started to grow my client base in the beginning when it’s just me,
[0:07:00]
it turns out that one of my newest clients – or first clients – she had a good friend, also an attorney, also a mom of young children, also just disenchanted with litigation. And she was only – so that’s my partner, Kim, now, but Kim was only about a year behind me in articulating this vision for estate planning, very similar to what I had about a year ahead on her.
She reached out to me and she is just a fabulous partner. We really complement each other. We bring different strengths to the table, view things differently in a way that’s really helpful to move us forward as a firm with our vision and our mission statement. That’s a high point. Our revenue has grown every year so that’s always a high point.
Clate Mask: Yes. Congratulations.
Bonnie Bowles: We – _____ that as far as allowing all of us to continue to build and grow. Low points have been that it’s really hard, honestly, to build a solid team. That is where intentionality is really so important.
[0:08:00]
And we’ve probably just been too impulsive in bringing individuals in onto our team who were good enough, but not really the best fit. And we pay for it. A year down the road, it costs us in turnover and that kind of thing. So that’s always been a struggle for us. The whole people relationship team thing, I think, I just hear from a lot of others is a struggle. But I enjoy it. My husband gives me a lot of insight on how to think about it and best practices. So that’s where we are.
Scott Martineau: Yeah. It is so tempting – when we talk to business owners who get to a certain place in their business, there’s a commonality which is they’re – they to get to suffer from the sins of their past. When you're first starting the business, it’s so tempting and easy to go and find the convenient employees, right, to bring in. and as you’ve said, you always sort of pay full price for that bad decision ands sometimes it drags out over years and you're just suffering and suffering, so I think that’s – you're definitely not alone in that.
[0:09:00]
And I don’t – so and just before we started the podcast, you mentioned the blue vase – the book about the blue vase. I want to just – we could have a little discussion about this.
Clate Mask: Yeah. ‘Cause we’ve had this same question in our minds from the early days. How do we get the right employees? How do we keep the right employees? Over time, we actually developed our philosophy, our purpose, our values, our mission, the foundations of the culture so that we could hire to it, and train to it, and then fire to it if people weren’t following that.
But one of the things that we found – we had this time where we had this particularly challenging role to fill and it was one of those things where it really did feel like we were looking for a unicorn to get this particular type of role. But we’ve – what we did is we had a leader who went through – he created a process to find candidates for this role that were just really tenacious and driven –
[0:10:00]
and would figure their way through all kinds of challenges. And –
Scott Martineau: We nicknamed the process “The Gauntlet.” That’s what he called it.
Clate Mask: [Laughs] Yes, but when they went through it, we gave them the blue vase and part of it was that they needed to go actually find and figure out what we were talking about by this whole blue vase thing. That was part of The Gauntlet that we set up. I don’t know what the blue vase is for you, but maybe it’s something similar and maybe you use it in your hiring. I don’t know. But would love – since you mentioned it, we’d love to hear you share a little bit about what that is for listeners because I think it’s a pretty powerful thing.
Bonnie Bowles: So the blue vase – well, there may be multiple blue vases in my life because it’s always what I want to strive for and achieve. And if I get there, I’m going to set up another blue vase to strive for and achieve. But before the podcast just because we here are on video, you can see me in my office and complimented me on my office. My office is what we call–
[0:11:00]
Clate Mask: By the way, her office is really beautiful. It’s really cool. [Laughs]
Bonnie Bowles: Thank you. We call it our blue vase. We are the first tenants here in our space. We got to design it out to our specifications and just how we – our style and how we prefer our office to be. And we do not have the typical attorney’s office with marble and cherry wood and all that. It is a very open environment, very welcoming. There is a ton of natural light.
And we’re on the second floor of our building, but we have operational garage doors that open on a beautiful day. We’re in Denver so that’s – you know, most days of the year are pretty beautiful to open up the garage doors. We even have a little bar set up [break in audio] on where the doors open so you could sit there and eat lunch or do something on your iPad or computer. So my partner, Kim and I, have both read The Go-Getter and we call this office our blue vase.
Scott Martineau: So for those of you who don’t know what the blue vase is referring to it’s a book called The Go-Getter and in the book, an employer gives a task to –
[0:12:00]
one of his employees – I think it’s actually a future employee.
Clate Mask: Yeah.
Scott Martineau: And he’s tasked to go out and find this blue vase. And it’s intentionally vague instructions and there’s lots of roadblocks he knows in the way, but his test is to find out if this employee would go through all the obstacles and end up coming back with a blue vase. And he ends up doing it.
Clate Mask: Yeah. Goes through all the challenges, bust through everything, and in the end, the award is the blue vase. So what Bonnie’s referring to is this – her awards in life are these blue vases.
Scott Martineau: So the point I wanted to make about that in the hiring process is a few things to maybe consider. One would be we’ve tried to make it a practice of always having a candidate pool where if you’ve had at least three final candidates to select from – it’s so tempting when you’ve got to fill this role, you're so – you know, it’s, like, “We are dying unless we get this person.” And you will make concessions in your mind. So having three candidates just makes sure that you’ve got – and not just three top of the funnel candidates, but three people that have really –
Clate Mask: Finalists.
Scott Martineau: made it through. They’re finalists.
[0:13:00]
And one of the ways that we’ve seen – a cool strategy for weeding out the people early in the process is just put tasks in front of them that require them to have tenacity and require them to plow through – to plow through obstacles and get to the results, which is the essence of the blue vase, right?
And that – we’ve just seen a lot of – you just save yourself time in the process of hiring because you don’t have to go interview people that can’t make it through that. And then you're – many, many pounds of happiness over the years as you –
Clate Mask: [Laughs] Yeah. Well, something that you said as you were going through it, Bonnie, you talked about the high cost of the turnover. And I think this is something that successful entrepreneurs realize is that when you're in the early stages, you may not have yet realized just the impact of what happens when you don’t get the right employee or you turn them over quickly, or worst, you hold onto them too long and so –
[0:14:00]just the fact that you're working on getting those right employees. That’s actually a sign of success. That’s what leads to being very successful. The worst thing is to hold on to an employee that’s just – it’s not working and you hold on for years and years. And sometimes we see that and it literally hamstrings the growth, prevents the company from achieving the success that the business owner’s after. So on the one hand, you don’t want to have no turnover because you hold onto people you shouldn’t hold onto.
On the other hand, it really is very costly when you are turning people over quickly. And so like Scott said, having that interview process that is a certain gauntlet for the candidates and having multiple candidates at the end, the successful small businesses as they grow, they’ve put that kind of hiring process in place. It sounds like you’ve had some success with it, but I know as you put that in place, it’ll help your firm grow even more.
Bonnie Bowles: We actually just went through that. We totally revamped our hiring and consideration process ‘cause we’re filling –
[0:15:00]
a really important role: client relations manager, who is the face of our firm to clients other than the attorney. And we really revamped it and thought it through at a much deeper level than we ever had. And we actually have someone starting on Monday who we are so excited about. We just think that – given just what we’ve learned about her and how she did get through the process, that she really excelled and shined throughout. I think it’s going to be a huge benefit to our firm.
As I mentioned, this office just getting here, ‘cause it took us about three years to get here was a blue vase, but our next blue vase is the right team, but we also really value our systems and processes, which the right team needs to be here to help improve and build in order to basically be able to expand what we do beyond Denver, Colorado where if there are other estate planning attorneys with the same philosophy and approach as us, we’ve got a solid rock star team here who knows our system forward and back and we can actually go and implement our system and process in another city –
[0:16:00]
or another state to do the same thing and provide the level of the client experience that we do.
Clate Mask: That’s cool. Well, that’s awesome. Congratulations
Scott Martineau: I would imagine that when she walked in the door, too, we’ve seen this at Infusionsoft when you create that barrier that is – the wall that’s tough to get over, when they walk through the door, it’s like, “Man, it feels good to be here. I made it through. I’m here.” All in, right? And excited to be there. That’s so great.
Clate Mask: One thing I’d love to hear from you – we ask this quite a bit from our podcast guests, but as you’ve got – we have listeners out there and some of them – they haven’t got that blue vase yet. They’re just kinda wondering, “Am I going to be able to make it?” So what advice would you give for someone that’s in that valley? They’re struggling. They haven’t yet got to that point of success? Any advice that you would offer them?
Bonnie Bowles: Yeah, so two things come to mind. And you’ve already mentioned it actually, which is tenacity.
[0:17:00]
It could be your passion, but you’ve got to balance it with what others – what the market needs. So just being tenacious about balancing those two and making sure what you're doing is both what you love to do and what the market needs. So being very thoughtful and intentional about that and just moving forward at a fast clip. I think that’s a really fun aspect of small businesses is that it really does lend itself to moving forward quickly and trying out ideas and nixing something that doesn’t work. I think doing – focusing on tenacity.
But also, you know, sales cures all. Sometimes I get caught up where I may be buried in a spreadsheet and I’m loving it. And I’m seeing – I’m doing all these formulas and numbers and it’s great. And then I take a reality check and I’m, like, you know, I really just need to actually get my boots on the ground and go connect with potential clients. So, keeping that in mind as well.
Scott Martineau: So great. I love probably nothing more than hearing an attorney use the word “sales.”
Clate Mask: [Laughs]
[0:18:00]
Scott Martineau: So great, you know. We were actually – we were talking about attorneys who think about this as a practice – this is a practice, not a business. I love it. It’s not as a business. I mean, it can be a practice.
Clate Mask: It is a practice, but it’s a business. And if you don’t treat it like a business, you are not going to be very successful. You got to treat it that way.
Scott Martineau: We say it a lot that leadership is an exercise in relinquishing control. What is it – and I love hearing your vision of we got to hire the right people to create the process and system so we can expand and grow. Tell us what that’s like. What are your keys to letting go? You just got a really strained look on your face.
Clate Mask: [Laughs]
Scott Martineau: [Laughs]
Bonnie Bowles: Well, I like a high level of control. So this has been –
Scott Martineau: Yes, of course.
Clate Mask: You're the only entrepreneur that likes that, by the way. We don’t know any other entrepreneurs that want control.
Bonnie Bowles: Right. Absolutely. For a couple of years, it was a total struggle just to let someone else check the mail practically. It’s been really liberating because when I finally do just get to a point where I’m, like, the way that that person did it is completely fine.
[0:19:00]
There’s nothing wrong with it. Even if I woulda done it different – once I finally got into that mental mode of being able to accept that – now of course as long as it was exceptional work still – just maybe slightly different looking than what I would have done, but when I finally mentally got there and saw how much it freed me up to do the things that really make a difference to my bottom line and to allowing me more time with my family, which is just as critical – once I saw that actually play out, I was all about the delegation in a responsible way. There are irresponsible ways and responsible ways, but I was all about it when I could actually let someone else take the reins for a minute.
Clate Mask: This is critical because what you’ve just described is actually, I think, is probably the thing that holds entrepreneurs back from moving to the next stage. We talk all the time about the stages of small business success. Generally speaking, they happen at about 100,000, 300,000, 1 million, 3 million, 10 million.
[0:20:00]
There’s kind of a progression. At each of those points when you're crossing over the stage, the critical thing that is true about alt he stages, is that the entrepreneur actually has to let go of a little bit more. There are certain skills and certain things that also come into play, but those tend to be more stage specific whereas that necessity to let go a little bit more is critical.
If you don’t fall in love with the delegation, if you don’t fall in love with the notion that there’s more than one right way to do things, then you're always holding onto the way, like, your way. And it’s impossible to get people to be able to come in and take ownership and gets tuff done. You can be the entrepreneur that gets to do it the way, but also paint yourself into the corner of always having the answers, not being able to go on vacation, not being able to leave the office. The fact that you’ve grabbed ahold of that and you are fired about delegation –
[0:21:00]
and seeing that people can do things in different ways and it’s right, is really cool. I hope our audience really gets that because like you, like Scott, I’m a control freak. We all are. Let’s just face it and admit it. But if we don’t push ourselves to relinquish control, we are actually stuck holding all of the responsibility and that is not a fun place to be.
Bonnie Bowles: No. You know it’s not and I actually was there for a couple of years in the beginning, but I’m also a mom of young children. And you know, nothing will drive it home like having – well, whether they’re young or not, it doesn’t really matter, but nothing will drive it home like not being able to spend time with your family because there are days, months, a year or two there in the beginning when I would go home and immediately get buried in my computer again. And I would wake up and miss my family. It just was not a good balance.
Scott Martineau: And then meanwhile, the employees, I think the nature of human beings in general is just we want to own. We want to have impact. So there’s a missed opportunity there, right, which can –[0:22:00]
Clate Mask: Well, totally and for entrepreneurs we get our identity all wrapped up in our work. It’s who we are. It is us. It’s our business and ourselves. They’re inseparable and so when we get that identity wrapped up in the work, then it becomes very, very difficult to delegate. I think you made a great point though.
When you have a bigger why then you let go of some of those things and you're – you realize with your family, it just pushed you and you said, “Well, wait. I can’t keep doing that. I’ve got to take a deep breath, chill out a little bit. Let them do it this way. And then that allows me to be with my family.” And then you realize, you know what? Things didn’t fall apart. The client’s just fine. Everything’s going to be okay.
Bonnie Bowles: Exactly.
Clate Mask: And now you have an employee who’s emboldened and it actually starting to take on more and bigger things because they took something off of the boss’s plate and now they’re getting more responsibility and that’s an exciting them for the reason Scott mentioned.
Bonnie Bowles: And you know not just that that they’re taking more ownership,
[0:23:00]
but also I have found one employee we have in particular – and we prefer to say “team member” actually – he is just bringing all sorts of original ideas to the table because he knows that he can. And we will entertain them because we will absolutely consider anything that will get us further along the road toward our vision and our mission statement and how we serve our clients. He’ll come up with things that we hadn’t even thought about because he knows that he has the latitude to do that with us because we’ve owned the door for him.
Scott Martineau: Let’s fast forward. You go down the road five years, ten years, you sell this practice for $1billion, and you're sitting at home and you're thinking to yourself, “Man, I’m so proud about,” – what do you feel like you're most proud about in your business?
Bonnie Bowles: I am most proud about our client base. Our client base grows every month, but the feedback we get from them about their experience here makes every single trial and tribulation worth it.[0:24:00]
When we hear our clients say that they feel more peace of mind about their family being protected in the case of the unknown, that peace of mind comment is what I really love to hear because that’s what we do as attorneys. We don’t just create documents. An online service could do that and I don’t think that that’s adequate. There’s a lot of issues there. The peace of mind that our client gets from sitting down with an attorney who asks questions they would have never thought of, I love that clients give us that feedback because that’s actually a critical component of our mission statement. So when they volunteer that that’s what they feel then we feel that we’ve done our job. So that’s been the best part.
Scott Martineau: So great that they speak it back to you. You don’t have to coach them. You just deliver it and they speak it back to you. That’s beautiful.
Clate Mask: That’s really cool. Well, I got one last question I’d love to hear from you and then if you have a question or two you want to ask us, we’d be happy to answer, but you’ve done some – the way you’ve designed your business and your life, you’ve created something that so many entrepreneurs want to have when they start.
[0:25:00]
They want to have a successful business and a successful life. They don’t want to be – they want to have control in the business, but they don’t want the business to control them. And you talked about the first couple of years where that was happening and you talked about your ability to delegate and your ability to empower other people. But I’d love to hear – so what are the benefits of having done that? Give the listeners a reason – like, what’s great about your successful business and successful life that makes the success in business worth it? Tell us about the life side. Why is it so great?
Bonnie Bowles: So as an attorney, I worked 40 hours a week, which is almost unheard of.
Clate Mask: That’s right.
Bonnie Bowles: That in of itself is pretty amazing. It provides us a real sense of accomplishment and so that’s always really nice for my husband and me as we see this grow and see other team members thrive. When we have team get-togethers and they bring all their spouses and children and we –
[0:26:00]
look around and just say, “Wow. Our idea just sitting in this study is now supporting this wonderful community of people and children is pretty awesome and rewarding for us and tangibly.” And our kids growing up around the children of our team members who we are – those are people we really believe in and love and trust. And so the fact that they get to grow around the children of also very successful motivated people, I think, is great for our kids.
Clate Mask: Yeah. That’s awesome. We talk all the time about – you know, really what we want to do is help small businesses to grow sales, save time and enjoy life, you know, have a successful business and a successful life. And for us, one of the ways we do that is through sales and marketing automation, but it’s also through teaching and then, of course, sharing with people what are these small business success ideas and suggestions. So thanks for sharing that with our people. I totally appreciate that.
Scott Martineau: Bonnie, you're awesome. Thank you for spending the time with us.
[0:27:00]
You are so articulate and tenacious and you have added yet another data point to – Clate and I have a philosophy and this is no offense to our male listeners, but we generally find that female entrepreneurs are more driven, more committed and are more likely to succeed. Thank you just continuing to build our case.
Clate Mask: Yes. [Laughs]
Bonnie Bowles: Thank you for having me. I feel so honored to be on.
Clate Mask: You bet. Do you have a question that you’d like us to answer? Is there anything that we can share?
Bonnie Bowles: Sure. So we talked about The Go-Getter, which all three of us have read. But what is the last book each of you read?
Clate Mask: Oh. Let’s see.
Scott Martineau: I’m listening – I’m not quite done. It’s a 39-hour audiobook, but I’m just about to finish a book on Michelangelo called The Agony and Ecstasy.
Clate Mask: Wow.
Bonnie Bowles: That is an awesome book. I read that in college. It’s awesome.
Scott Martineau: I’m so uncultured and I feel like this whole new world is waking up to me.
Clate Mask: That’s why I said, “Wow.” Did you noticed that I know Scott’s uncultured?
Scott Martineau: [Laughs]
Clate Mask: [Laughs] So I just read a book called Sprint, which is – I read two or three weeks ago.
[0:28:00]
And just really cool principles and – actually it’s probably the most specific advice book I’ve ever read. It is exact. If you're going to – it’s all about testing ideas and iterating and learning very quickly in one-week sprints. And the whole book is actually laid out like what you do on Monday, what you do on Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday, Friday, right down to when you start, what you eat, who’s in the room. I mean, it’s amazing. It is really pretty interesting. But if you’re –
Scott Martineau: I think the employee you talked about earlier would probably love that book.
Clate Mask: [Laughs]
Scott Martineau: No, I mean, serious.
Clate Mask: Oh, the guy you were talking about.
Scott Martineau: The team member she – yeah, the team member who’s full of ideas.
Bonnie Bowles: Yes.
Scott Martineau: It’s great.
Clate Mask: Yeah, it’s really cool. Well, that was great. Bonnie thanks so much for being with us. This has been a ton of fun and we congratulate you on the success in your business and your life, and we’re excited to see the things that you do down the road. Anything else you want to add, Scott?
Bonnie Bowles: Thanks so much.
Scott Martineau: No, thanks again, Bonnie. You're fantastic.
Bonnie Bowles: Thanks, Scott. Thanks, Clate.
[Music playing]
Scott Martineau: All right.
[0:29:00]
Well, that’s a wrap for this episode for the Small Business Success podcast. Thanks everybody for tuning in and tune into the next episode to hear more stories of small business success.
Clate Mask: Don’t forget to rate on iTunes and share and subscribe. We look forward to the next podcast. Make sure you tune in.