Small Biz Buzz—123—Amber Anderson—Curated marketing to underserved demographics

Amber Anderson, owner of Tote + Pears, joins Small Biz Buzz to discuss how to market to an underserved audience with the appropriate ads, in this case, women and their families.

Amber Anderson’s agency, Tote + Pears, focuses on supporting startups with product management and branding. About two and a half years after launching, she made the decision to focus 100% on women–women being consumers, women being employees, and women being the thread that tied a lot of things together.

“[Women] make over 85% of all consumer purchasing decisions, and in many cases, they are the ones that are driving the decisions in their families,” said Anderson. “So that's how we got started and how we became a female-focused branding agency.”

Brands and businesses usually don't ask, you're a woman and you're what else? That's the position that Anderson’s agency takes at Tote + Pears. “I feel like if we did that more often, we'd see a lot of ads that connected more authentically,” Anderson said.

Click play for more.

Transcript:

Crystal Heuft (00:18):

I have no plans really, except I'm getting my hair done this ... tonight, and that's the highlight of my months these days, because it's the only place I go to do anything. So real exciting. What about you, Amber, anything fun?

Amber Anderson (00:33):

I didn't even realize it was Friday until you mentioned that. That is the bad part. The days are blending in. We have a six-year-old so we usually use the weekends to catch up on shows, maybe do a bike ride and just stay home, relax.

Derek Harju (00:49):

Oh, rad. I would love to go for a bike ride. It's been so long since I actually even owned a bike and I certainly ... there's no reason to buy one now because we had a newborn, what, three weeks ago?

Amber Anderson (01:01):

Mmm, yeah. Are you sleeping?

Derek Harju (01:03):

Only just. Actually, the last three days have been really cool, three hours at a shot.

Amber Anderson (01:09):

That's a big deal. Three hours is a big deal with a newborn.

Crystal Heuft (01:12):

She's so cute.

Derek Harju (01:14):

Thanks. Howdy, everybody, I'm Derek Harju. We're here today with cohost Amber Anderson and ... Oh, sorry. I already screwed up the show and transposed our [crosstalk 00:01:24].

Crystal Heuft (01:24):

It's okay. Who cares Derek? Let's just role with it because it's Friday.

Derek Harju (01:26):

Crystal take over, I'm not supposed to host the show anymore.

Crystal Heuft (01:30):

Derek, you're going to do great. We've got myself, Crystal Heuft, and Amber. I'm really curious about how you came into contact with Amber because I'm really excited about the show, so fill us in.

Derek Harju (01:42):

So like a lot of things in my life, I just surround myself with people that are cooler and smarter than me, and then I can, by standing next to them, I can glom onto a lot of their success. So Amber who was put into my field of vision by Jenny at Cahoots, who is, as we've met before, is my cousin through means that don't warrant going into right now. I was curious, how do you know Jenny?

Amber Anderson (02:04):

I've known Jenny for a long time, so probably maybe five and a half, six years. We met when I was working with a startup tech company. We were looking to do a rebrand and she had Eco Studio at the time. She had Cahoots, but Cahoots wasn't her primary. She was still focusing on design and she was pregnant and I was pregnant. She didn't say she was pregnant though, at the time. She said she was just looking at me like, how are we going to get this project done? And clearly you're pregnant. And I said, don't worry about that. We will get it done. I promise you. You've never met anybody like me.

Amber Anderson (02:43):

And then I ended up going into labor early with my son and didn't finish the project. But she sent me a gift and I just thought she was one of the kindest people I've ever met in my life. Because we stayed connected after that point, we started talking and what connected us was that we were both moms that were starting this journey together and how that had changed our lives, and we've been really good friends ever since.

Derek Harju (03:12):

I was hoping that you would tell us about Tote + Pears. And when did you start that business?

Amber Anderson (03:20):

Sure. So Tote + Pears is a female focus branding agency. And actually we've rebranded. We've had our agency for about almost nine years. It'll be nine years in January. And the original thing was I came from corporate, and when I worked in corporate, I was in technology and I was working for a large education company that was actually a technology company, but we were looked at as an education company. And I just felt like I could do something different and better.

Amber Anderson (03:50):

So when I left, I consulted for a while and I was struggling to find a space where I felt like I could be myself 100%.

Crystal Heuft (03:59):

Wow.

Amber Anderson (04:00):

And then when I became a mother, it became even more complicated because now my identity was more than just being a woman of color, trying to figure out how do I navigate as an entrepreneur, but then adding the layer of motherhood just was complex. I was trying to figure out who I was, trying to figure out how to keep a child alive and the world was continuously asking me to give more of me.

Amber Anderson (04:27):

And so I kept the agency and we would focus very broadly on supporting startups and companies that have products that they wanted to put into the market, both with product management and branding. And then about two and a half years ago, I made the decision that we were going to focus 100% on women, women being consumers, women being employees, and women being the thread that tied a lot of these things together, both because they make over 85% of all consumer purchasing decisions, and because in many cases they are the ones that are driving the decisions in their families. So that's how we got started and how we got to become a female focus branding agency.

Crystal Heuft (05:09):

I love that. I feel like there's so many times when you see an ad on TV or, wherever you're seeing ads these days, podcasts, whatever, and you just aren't connecting. You're not feeling like they're speaking to you. Do you remember any moment like that, that you really felt like you could come in and solve some of those problems?

Amber Anderson (05:30):

Yeah. Every day.

Crystal Heuft (05:31):

Right?

Amber Anderson (05:32):

Yeah, so what makes Tote + Pears super unique is we say women, but then we say, well, what does it mean to be a woman? What does it mean to talk about what women need? Because, our needs are so drastically different depending on what layers of identity you're talking to. When I was 20, my needs were different than me at 38, as a mother, as a business owner, my needs have changed. And so women get this rap like, we'll just throw pink on it. And we'll just do girl power and then every woman's going to connect with it, right? Because she's got lipstick on.

Amber Anderson (06:09):

But the reality is, women are so different. In most cases, our gender is not what connects us. It's actually these offsprings of identities, motherhood, marriage, empty-nester, race, religion, sexual orientation. Am I a woman? I'm non-binary? There's a billion questions. And so what we focus on is what are the ands of a woman's identity, and those are the things that you can focus on to really grab her attention.

Amber Anderson (06:37):

So brands and businesses, they usually don't ask, you're a woman and you're what else? And that's the position that we take it Tote + Pears. And I feel like if we did that more often, we'd see a lot of ads that connected more authentically.

Derek Harju (06:51):

Could you point to ... Sorry Crystal, I didn't mean to cut you off.

Crystal Heuft (06:53):

No, go ahead.

Derek Harju (06:54):

I was just curious if you could point to a time when, a concrete instance where you saw just marketing that did not get the point.

Amber Anderson (07:08):

I think it happens all the time, but I'm going to give you an example. We're going to talk about technology and I think this goes back and forth, both on product and as well as employers. There's a big campaign to get more people into tech and STEM. And we've been spending a lot of time in this because some of our clients are in the tech space. A lot of our clients are in the tech space, but there's this move for saying, we need to get more women in tech, more women in STEM.

Amber Anderson (07:33):

And the reason we were saying that is because women make less than men. So we wanted to do this big push to increase the pay gap. And when we started to dig into the research, the answer is true, women do make less than men, but the stat that people were going off of was based off of a white woman's salary. It was that 81 cents for every man's dollar is what a woman makes. But when you started to add on the layer of race, the numbers drafted drastically.

Amber Anderson (07:57):

It was like 60 cents for every man's dollar, a black woman makes. And so when we asked the questions of, well, how does race plus gender influence this data point? It was a drastic change. And so what we were saying is, if we did that in all these other layers, we might find that we've missed some important key pieces. And so when we were working with our client, we have a client called Girls In Tech, they have about 70,000 members around the world. They've been around since 2007.

Amber Anderson (08:28):

That was one of the things we went in with them and said, okay, so your objective is that you want to connect with more women, but your narrative is around one identity of a woman. And as a result, you're not seeing the diversity you're looking for, you're also not able to solve this gap, which is how do I fill and make sure we're all getting paid equally. The answer is we need to identify the issues each woman is facing and talk to her based off of where she is.

Amber Anderson (08:51):

So, that's one of the examples we've been working on really heavily now with Girls In Tech and several other nonprofits and companies that are trying to fill that from an employer perspective. How do I find more equality and diversity within my organizations? And it applies on the consumer side as well. When we look at, for example, lotion or hair care products, when you added on the layers of race, you'd see some demographics actually buy more, but you don't show them at all.

Amber Anderson (09:22):

And so when you do then your products and your sales increase, when you talk to them in their unique space, your products and sales increase. But when you focus on one demographic, you lose sight of all the other opportunities to connect. And therefore those people feel invisible.

Crystal Heuft (09:40):

It seems so basic to think about it that way. But I think you are 100% right that so many don't. And when you think today about the way we market and the way we target on different platforms, it's interesting to me to really think, how do you make sure the ad or the marketing goes to the right audience you intend for it to fit to? Sorry, that's just my, I don't know which side of my brain, the one that's thinking very analytically right now.

Crystal Heuft (10:07):

But once you have all of those personas, which I think is brilliant and important, it's tough. I do a lot of social media marketing and I think how do you make sure the right ad goes to the right person? And how do you find the right persona within those constraints of Facebook targeting? I'm not sure if you have an answer to that. But that was what was going through my mind because it's so great to have all of that and then what do you do with that?

Amber Anderson (10:32):

Well, I think the first step is saying that you did create the right persona to begin with. So there's the identity of we created one persona, but what if that one persona really is like [inaudible 00:10:43] and making sure that you said, okay, I have a woman. She lives here. She makes this much money. And then you take into consideration, what are the subsets of those identities that might shift where she is and what she's thinking?

Amber Anderson (10:56):

So we always will go back with our clients and say, let's take a peak at those personas again and see that we didn't miss anything. And 10 times out of 10, we did. The personas you're working off of are inaccurate. And so even if you're targeting, but you don't have the right data. So, that's the first step. Then the second piece is then let's do some research to understand where is that person in their journey when we are targeting them, am I asking them to buy a car in the middle of them taking their kid to the hospital, right?

Amber Anderson (11:25):

Like, where is my ad hitting them? And so understanding the journey allows you to create content that's more targeted to where that person is and what they're feeling, so you can be more appropriate in your messaging. It's not a turnoff then, it's helpful, right? And so that's where we take into consideration kind of this intersectional piece of here's my persona, here's her journey, and then here's where we're meeting her or her family. And based off that, we're going to say what we need to say in the right context and adjust for different platforms.

Derek Harju (11:58):

My question was, have you ever come into, I know that typically you're going to be vetting your clients and the people that you work with extremely well, but have you ever encountered anyone in the space who's less interested in understanding their audience than they are in, I fail to come up with a kinder term, but manipulating them?

Amber Anderson (12:18):

Yeah. That's a great question. So, we did a lot of work up front. Again, we've been around for almost nine years, but we didn't rebrand until two-and-a-half years ago. And that's because we needed to do some upfront work to define our persona, who are the people that we're okay with and who were the people that we're not okay with? And based off of that, we started to vet out people before we started to introduce this work.

Amber Anderson (12:45):

So now we're at the point where we do a screening before we bring any clients on. And if they don't pass our checkpoint, then we're going to do a no-go. But yeah, absolutely. There's lots of people that will come to us and say, this is great information. For example, when I was working back in corporate, I remember distinctly that we had done some analysis and realized that the person that was going to buy a particular product was going to be a single black woman with children and the product wasn't good.

Amber Anderson (13:16):

It wasn't a good product, but we were doing such a great job of creating this marketing collateral to attract her and I stopped and reflected, and I was like, that's my mom, because my mom wants this for me, but she doesn't know the end product. And so that's always stuck with me and making sure that whatever we build and whoever we work with has the right intentions. And because we want to make sure that we're doing right for the people we care about, which at the end of the day are the women and her family.

Derek Harju (13:46):

Because if you can ... if you have a savvy enough team, they're going to say the right things to the right demographic, subsets and psychographic subsets. But I can't imagine how it would feel to be involved in providing what should be altruistic knowledge to companies at large, and then having people just misuse that data. And it's really awesome to see that you're in this space trying to guide a larger context shift towards actually speaking towards the people who are going to use the product, instead of saying, hey, what's the largest demographic? Oh, males, 18 to blibedy-blah, 18 to 34, 18 to 48 over and over and over again. And I was curious if you first started to realize that this is where you wanted to align your business and your mission going forward?

Amber Anderson (14:41):

So your question is when did I know that this was the direction I wanted to take the agency?

Derek Harju (14:45):

Right. When was it clear to you that this was what you should be doing with your time and energy?

Amber Anderson (14:54):

Yeah, so it actually, I think begins that it was a series of things that made it clear to me, the moment when I was realizing that we weren't doing good service when I was working in corporate environments, that was a little mark in my journey to say, I don't want to do that. But the real key thing for me is when I became a mother myself and I realized how much my perspective had changed. Everything changed the moment my son was born. Before, I thought of myself as somebody that was really driven, incredibly driven, I would have for sure been the CEO of a major company, but the moment my son was born and I was like, I don't want that.

Crystal Heuft (15:37):

I feel like it's still pretty driven to be owning your own business and doing your own thing. That to me is like the epitome of driven. That scares me so much and I admire it so much, but I do see what you mean there, it's on your own terms now.

Amber Anderson (15:54):

Yeah. The biggest thing is actually Jenny and I had talked about it. When we were going through it, because we were already entrepreneurs, the question was, how am I going to do all of this? It became less about what success looked like before and now how can I possibly do what my son ... How can I possibly give him what he deserves? And for most women, I think it was, the stats are 40%. They are the primary breadwinner in their family. In my case, that was the case because I was so ambitious, my husband was going to be the one to maintain the household.

Amber Anderson (16:29):

And when we had the baby and I realized that I wanted to be there, that was a shift that we did not plan for. And so I still had the responsibility of being the primary breadwinner and also trying to maintain sanity and breastfeeding and being there for a little one who, again, my son was premature. He was born at seven months. So we had hospital visits and things like that as well.

Amber Anderson (16:56):

So for me, I knew that I wanted to be present in my family's life. I knew that I wanted to make sure that I was working with people who cared as much as I did about the work that they were doing, about the impact that had on people. And I knew that I ... that women and families were being left behind. And so at some point it just started to come together for me that there was an opportunity to do all the things I cared about in one swoop.

Crystal Heuft (17:25):

My sister, she's had two kids in the last three years and it's been amazing to see her become a mother and how her priorities have also shifted. She's still kicking butt at work, but also, kicking butt at motherhood. Which to me, if you ask me which one looks more difficult, I would say motherhood, hands down. I'm not a mom of my own. And I'll tell you, I spent last Sunday over there with them where I became my niece's horse and my knees are still recovering. My back is still recovering, but it was a blast and it's probably very rewarding.

Crystal Heuft (18:00):

So I do think you're 100% accurate about looking at all the different personas of women and how they all kind of, they all are very different. And once you layer them, it becomes even more complex. But what I'm really curious about is thinking of our audience and our entrepreneurs out there, a lot of them I feel would find, is this valuable time? So speaking from your own experience of a couple of years back when you actually looked at your own business and kind of reprioritized and shifted, maybe your audience slightly, what do you think the benefits of taking the time to really do this research and the care put into thinking of how personas are layered to create the ideal audience, what have you seen the benefits to be?

Amber Anderson (18:46):

So for me, the benefits are because we do it both for employer branding and we do it for consumers, and I think it's twofold. One, it's getting harder and harder for you to get the attention of people, especially after COVID and in the digital space. If you are not focused on talking to them, you have two seconds and they've moved on and it gets even worse if you say something wrong.

Crystal Heuft (19:11):

Oh. So much worse.

Amber Anderson (19:12):

You will hit Twitter in no time, right?

Crystal Heuft (19:15):

Yep.

Amber Anderson (19:15):

And so for a business owner, being able to really understand your customer allows you to ensure that you are speaking to them in a way that they need to be spoken to, and that you're not putting your brand at risk by saying the wrong thing to the wrong people.

Derek Harju (19:30):

With that in mind, I was curious if you had any brands in mind that are doing it right.

Amber Anderson (19:34):

If I had any brands in mind that are doing it right when it comes to targeting women or just in general?

Crystal Heuft (19:40):

To targeting women and then more specifically, if you have any examples of micro-targeting.

Amber Anderson (19:49):

Yeah. I have a hard time sometimes calling out brand names because sometimes they're clients and sometimes they're competitors. So I don't think I can give you specifics if it's okay, but I can tell you that you can. I think that, for example, let me try this. So I think it's easy for you to know when a brand is doing it right when what they say resonates with you. When you walk away and you're like, that made me feel really good or they really get me or their product landed at the right time at the right place. And it becomes really apparent because you get this kind of cult following. I'll give you one, they're not a client of ours, but it's called Rossi, it's a shoe company.

Crystal Heuft (20:29):

Oh my gosh, I love them.

Amber Anderson (20:31):

This is what I'm talking about, right?

Crystal Heuft (20:33):

Yeah.

Amber Anderson (20:33):

So when you talk to people, it's this instant like, I am magically in love with this brand and whenever they pop up in my feed, I don't care how much they charge me, the product is magnificent. And they just do a really good job I think being consistent with who they are and what they're going to sell and who they're selling it to. They're not trying to sell it to everyone, but for their target audience, you can see kind of this cult following, right?

Crystal Heuft (20:59):

Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Amber Anderson (21:00):

And so I think that they've done a really good job of understanding that they're not going to reach everyone. Nobody's going to pay $200, not everybody's going to pay $200 for a pair of flats, right?

Crystal Heuft (21:08):

Right.

Amber Anderson (21:09):

But there is an audience that will pay for that.

Crystal Heuft (21:11):

And they have the perfect layering in my opinion, because they really are focused on either the ease of throwing them in their bag, washing them all of that, or the environmental effects of the fact that they're using recycled water bottles to make these shoes that you can just kind of throw around. It speaks to me more on the side of I'm the kind of woman that would want to throw my shoes in a bag and just be able to beat the heck out of them, wash them and they're still good.

Crystal Heuft (21:38):

So they got me on that part, but I think they probably get other people on the fact that they're saving all these water bottles and recycling and using them for sustainable shoes. I think they've kind of really done a good job at knowing who they're speaking to.

Amber Anderson (21:51):

And I think the other important thing about women is women are not just buying for themselves, they're buying for everyone. When I say 85% of all consumer purchasing decisions are made by a woman or the influenced by a woman, then that means even for you, Derek, your wife has maybe influenced the purchase of your house, where you went to the hospital to have the baby, the food that goes into the house, the lotion you're using, there's these nuances of it's not always the brands that are up in your face doing really sexy stuff that have captured the hearts of women and know how to do it really well.

Amber Anderson (22:31):

And so that's kind of the trick I think, is realizing that women are more than just pink and flip flops. We make decisions about so many important factors for our family's lives and if you're able to be genuine and authentic and catch us at the right time, there's just so many opportunities for brands to be able to sell into the home. And that's kind of the big thing. I think Alexa does a really good job with it as well, by mixing convenience and mixing things that you like and having authentic conversations about family and different spaces. And so I would say that's another company, Amazon's Alexa, that's been doing some really cool things there as well.

Derek Harju (23:13):

And you talked about your family and your son and seeing the brand mismanagement, and thinking of applying your mother directly to that scenario. I think that if a lot of business owners could ... were able to look at things through the lens of other people they care about in their life, if they have difficulty thinking about it through a different persona, if that can help them to better understand those customers, again, I can't help but bring it back to me because I'm a gross narcissist but my, when my ... since my daughters have been born, I've become acutely aware, irritatingly aware every time that I feel like they are being pandered to.

Derek Harju (24:01):

And then it makes me think very differently about the way these companies are marketing to my children, to my daughters and then to just young girls in general. There's the very obvious ones, the very obvious onerous, examples like the pink tax and things like that. But the big ones that hit me are just how few options I keep seeing for a lot of things that I want for my daughters, that they just don't make for them. They're like, nope, this is for boys and you're cut off.

Amber Anderson (24:36):

Yeah, totally. And I think that's kind of the point is there was so much opportunity for brands because they weren't talking at all to women at first or creating products at all for women. And then once they started, they were so narrow-minded in the way that they were doing it, that it was like, you left out a whole audience.

Crystal Heuft (24:52):

That brings me to a question I kind of had. We know there's tons of unconscious bias out there more than any of us on this call would prefer there to be. But knowing that, how can we ... what are some tips we can give small business owners and entrepreneurs out there to really help identify biases they don't even know they have in their marketing, in their business structure? Do you have any tips that they can be doing to make sure they're not leaving anything unseen?

Amber Anderson (25:19):

Yeah, that's a great question. So I think the first and foremost thing is to step back for a minute and remember that biases are natural. They come as part of our ways of creating shortcuts in our brain to get through our day. And I think with all the conversations that have been going on, people get sometimes sensitive about what does it mean to be biased. But if you could think about the exposure you have to other people, how many times have you this week seen someone that wasn't in your, well, it's hard with COVID now, right? But if you're only using your social media thread, you have to remember that it's generally based around the things they think you want to see.

Amber Anderson (25:56):

And so the first step is going outside of your comfort zone and reading and exploring a lot of things through other people's perspectives, doing your research to recognize you've got one persona that what are the other elements and the differences that that persona could have that take me outside of my comfort zone. And so that's kind of the first thing that I always recommend. The second is you could, at this point in time, do a Google search and find almost anything pertaining to unconscious bias. It's really helpful sometimes to look at a short video or get a better understanding of where is it coming, how do I recognize when an unconscious bias has been created or when I'm feeling something that might be that way.

Amber Anderson (26:36):

And then seeking out some type of training that can help kind of reverse your mindset. But to me, I don't think it's that crazy. I think it comes from us saying, I've been in the same space for a while now, I need to do something different. Maybe that's reading something completely different from mine and allowing myself to digest that perspective.

Derek Harju (26:58):

I was curious, are you seeing more companies that seem to be speaking to the right demographic, but they're doing it in the wrong way? They have a message, they're close, but they're just not really resonating.

Amber Anderson (27:13):

I think in most cases, companies are speaking to a narrow audience. So I've got one persona, maybe two, and that persona has not changed or shifted. It's kind of like this is the ideal persona, but they don't take into consideration the layers. How about different religions? How do they view this? How about different races? How are they going to do it? How about different cultures? How are they going to view this? And if you start to add on those layers, then you see, man, I haven't been doing a really good job at all expanding.

Amber Anderson (27:43):

I'll give you an example. When we think about the wedding industry, it primarily targets white Americans, but Asian Americans spend triple the amount on weddings. But in many cases, there wasn't even this consciousness that hey, maybe different cultures do things differently. And the way that they host their weddings are different, but they spend more money. So here's the cost and this is an example of where I think it's important for business owners.

Amber Anderson (28:11):

I think the average American wedding is 25,000. An average cost of an Indian wedding is 65,000, that's average cost. So when we're thinking from a business perspective, we might be looking at one persona, but we never asked ourselves now, what if I tweaked it to make it available or more appealing to a different persona? Would they be willing to pay more for this? Would they be interested at all? And in some cases, maybe that means you need to diversify your social media so that they feel included. Sometimes it means you might spark up a whole new brand to make sure that you're being really targeted and making sure that that audience feels like you get them.

Crystal Heuft (28:51):

Such a great example. That's such a great example and just think slight changes, you can actually be bringing that much more money into your average ticket sale of a wedding. I think it's a brilliant way to look at it. And that's kind of hitting on the benefit I was calling out earlier of expanding and finding, taking the time to do the research in the beginning so that you actually can leave with bigger results for your business and be able to kind of get your service or product out to more people.

Amber Anderson (29:23):

Yeah. Well, and that's the whole point of what we thought was really important for more business owners to understand is regardless we say women and we're centered around women for our reasons, but I do think regardless of who your persona is, everyone has layers. And so adding on those layers and expanding your personas to take into account those differences, give you such an opportunity to stand out in the market.

Crystal Heuft (29:47):

So I thought maybe a fun way to end this and if we don't want to, we don't have to, but it would be to talk about maybe one ad or commercial that you've seen, that you felt like you didn't resonate with, that maybe was supposed to resonate with you.

Amber Anderson (30:02):

You know what's so sad, is I am in advertising and I try not to watch commercials. Because I think they're all like, I just don't have the capacity in my brain to take anything more. It's terrible, isn't it?

Crystal Heuft (30:17):

I avoid it whenever I can, but Hulu does not let you skip. And actually I have an example of one that I really like. The Progressive, they do the little don't become your parents. It doesn't matter which rendition of that, I find them very funny and entertaining.

Amber Anderson (30:34):

We don't get Hulu for that reason. We refuse.

Crystal Heuft (30:38):

So smart.

Amber Anderson (30:39):

It's terrible. Because, we do not want to be inundated with commercials. So we will only do Netflix or whatever we can to bypass them. And I think it primarily is because I don't like to be sold to. And I think most people don't want to be sold to and advertisers have a hard time getting away from focusing on the product and focusing on the people. And so we've been doing the work to make that better and ignore everyone else.

Crystal Heuft (31:06):

Well, I think we'll just be happy you're doing the work because those ones that are really bad are really bad out there. So I'm just glad you're doing the work to change it then.

Amber Anderson (31:16):

Thank you.

Derek Harju (31:16):

Amber, thank you so much for being on the show. Can you tell people where they can find you?

Amber Anderson (31:21):

Sure. Yeah. So you can find me at toteandpears.com. That's T-O-T-E, and, A-N-D, pears like the fruit, P-E-A-R-S, .com.

Crystal Heuft (31:31):

Awesome.

Derek Harju (31:32):

And you have a podcast also, don't you?

Amber Anderson (31:34):

I do. Yeah. The Tote + Pears podcast. It's where we're giving insights and different perspectives on women and their families.

Derek Harju (31:41):

It's a really good show guys. I listened to a couple of episodes.

Amber Anderson (31:47):

Oh, thank you, Derek.

Derek Harju (31:47):

So thank you much for being on. Crystal, any final thoughts?

Crystal Heuft (31:50):

I am blown away. I think I'm going to listen to this a few times and start coming up with some ideas for how we can take these lessons directly into our Keap social media and all those aspects. So all I'm thinking about is what we can do to take this and directly impact our business.

Amber Anderson (32:06):

Thank you. I'm glad it was helpful.

Derek Harju (32:09):

It is totally helpful. And you were a delight to have on, so thank you so much. And I want to thank everybody for listening and this has been Small Biz Buzz.

Derek Harju (32:21):

Thanks for listening to Small Biz Buzz. Please take a second to subscribe to the show and leave a five-star rating. It helps keep the show going. And, if you need a hand with growing your small business, head over to keap.com. That's K-E-A-P.com and get started. More business. Less work. That's Keap.



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