From photographer to the CEO of a multi-million dollar empire, Jenna Kutcher joins us on stage at Let’s Grow Summit to share how achieve your goals and get freedom to focus on what truly matters.
In this Episode of Conquer the Chaos, she uncovers a structure to prevent burnout, increase creativity and productivity, and achieve a healthy work-life balance. By prioritizing your personal vision, mission, and goals, you can keep your business growing and maintain authenticity.
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Transcript
[00:00:00] Clate Mask: Hi, I'm Clayton Mask and on the Conquer the Chaos podcast, I talk with inspiring business owners about what it takes to build a great business and a great life. That means more money, more time, more control, more impact, more freedom. So keep listening to hear the tough lessons they learned so you don't have to repeat them.
[00:00:23] Darrin Adams: Jenna Kutcher is an amazing person. That's got an amazing following. She is a New York times bestseller for her book. How are you? Really? She's got the number one marketing business marketing podcast out there, Goal Digger. She's an expert in personal branding and social media influence. She is a, an expert in so many different areas.
[00:00:42] Darrin Adams: But she also understands the importance of getting education on things. She recently decided that she had a goal. She wanted to make the perfect loaf of sourdough bread. And so, she took a community education course in that. And has been learning how to make. So she's at home now in Minnesota. Not right now, but currently.
[00:01:00] Darrin Adams: While she's making, trying to perfect her sourdough bread. And while her husband is leading the charge in beekeeping. So if you ever want to drop in at the house up there. They've got sourdough bread, warm coming out of the oven, with fresh honey from their own beehives that they'll be happy to share with you.
[00:01:15] Darrin Adams: She's just not going to tell you where they live, so good luck trying to find her. We're going to welcome her to the stage for a fireside chat with Clayton Mask. Will you please welcome to the stage, one of our favorites, Jenna Kutcher!
[00:01:32] Jenna Kutcher: I'm going to be extra careful up here.
[00:01:34] Clate Mask: That's alright.
[00:01:35] Jenna Kutcher: I am clumsy, so I would fall.
[00:01:37] Clate Mask: Alright. Great to have you here. This is fantastic Many how many of you have are following Jenna Kutcher raise your hand if that's the case. All right,
[00:01:48] Jenna Kutcher: I see I see Rory and women
[00:01:52] Clate Mask: So if you're not Jenna is a brilliant marketer And is there's so much you can learn from her and what she what she does with social media.
[00:02:02] Clate Mask: In fact, Robert was just talking to you about, I heard him come, uh, uh, commending you for your amazing social marketing. Um, take it, take just a second and share what you, with the audience, what you believe is the kind of the, just the very essence of What makes your brand so amazing? What is it that has enabled you to build such an incredible podcast, such an incredible, get such an incredible book out there?
[00:02:27] Clate Mask: What is that essence that connects so much with people?
[00:02:30] Jenna Kutcher: I think my big mission is to help people treat time as their currency. And I feel like so many entrepreneurs start businesses to have freedom and this like expansive life. But I feel like when we really get into it, we get so caught up in all of the things that are pulling at our attention.
[00:02:48] Jenna Kutcher: So I think at the heart of it, it is to build businesses that don't take over our lives, but that fuel and feed into the lives that we want.
[00:02:57] Clate Mask: Love that. Does that resonate with people or what? That, that freedom message, right? That freedom and time. Time is the currency. Obviously I feel very strongly about that.
[00:03:08] Clate Mask: That's right at the core. Core of Conquer the Chaos. Um, why do we get, why is it that we get so wrapped up and we lose that picture of freedom and time when we get into business? What have you, what have you seen?
[00:03:21] Jenna Kutcher: Oh, well, I started my career as a wedding photographer, so I worked for corporate, bought a camera on Craigslist, and taught myself how to be a wedding photographer to get out of corporate.
[00:03:32] Jenna Kutcher: And I recognize that a lot of times when we start businesses, the one thing that we love doing, that's what we imagine. Like I imagine myself with my camera in hand, taking photos all day. And the actual art of photography was like 2 percent of what was required of me to run the business, right? There's marketing, invoicing.
[00:03:50] Jenna Kutcher: I was customer service. I was handling, editing, everything like that. And so I think what can be really hard is like the ultimate dream is to do what you love and get paid to do what you love. But the percentage of doing what you love when you're running a profitable company is so low That it can really lead to burnout.
[00:04:09] Jenna Kutcher: It can lead to dissatisfaction And I think too a lot of times We look at entrepreneurs who are showing up everywhere and we're like, okay, I need to do Instagram, Pinterest. I need to be on LinkedIn. I need to do Facebook. I need to have a podcast. I need to do all these things well, but we miss the parts of the chapters where they were maybe doubling down and figuring that thing out before they moved on to the next.
[00:04:29] Jenna Kutcher: So I think it's just, we're spreading ourselves too thin. Yeah.
[00:04:33] Clate Mask: Yeah. So true. So true. And I, and, and like you said, there's so many parts of the business that starts to start to stack up on us. And, uh, we didn't account for all of that. And pretty soon there's, you know, as I say all the time, there, there aren't enough hours in the day, there's just too much to do.
[00:04:47] Clate Mask: And so you have to start to get good at which things are we doing? Which things do we say, Oh, we don't need to do that. What are some of the things that you, um, that you teach your, your students that you share with entrepreneurs? Um, in really treating time as currency and doing the right things and letting some of the not so necessary things go by the wayside.
[00:05:10] Jenna Kutcher: Yeah, so I will never forget the day that I hit six figures. It had felt like this very elusive goal. My mom was a teacher. My dad works in a paper mill. I'm a first generation entrepreneur and that six figure number. I will never forget that day. I saw it like my revenue hit that I went up and took a shower.
[00:05:31] Jenna Kutcher: I was using the same herbal lessons I'd used the day before the angels were not singing. Nothing had changed in my life. And I remember thinking, man, I thought this would feel so different. And what was so hard about that day. And I think a lot of us have had this happen in our lives where we set these really big goals and we achieve them.
[00:05:51] Jenna Kutcher: And we realized like maybe that wasn't the goal after all, like maybe I was chasing the wrong thing. And so that day I sat down, we were living in this tiny village in Wisconsin, and I sat down with my husband, and I'd run all these numbers, and he comes home from his job selling wine in grocery stores, and I have all these spreadsheets out, and I'm like, I have to tell you something.
[00:06:12] Jenna Kutcher: And instead of celebrating the six figures, I said, I, I can't do this anymore. Like, if this is what it takes to earn six figures, I'm done. I was so much happier when I was earning 50, 000 a year. I had weekends. I had time with my family. And so I said, I want to go back to that. And what was so interesting is that the next year I booked half the amount of weddings.
[00:06:32] Jenna Kutcher: I set out to make half the amount of money because I really was learning that time was my currency. And when I finally unlocked time in my life, I learned the tactics, tools, and strategies that ended up allowing me to scale to seven figures in a much more peaceful pursuit.
[00:06:53] Clate Mask: So you tried to cut back half?
[00:06:54] Jenna Kutcher: Yes. And
[00:06:55] Clate Mask: you made 10 times more?
[00:06:56] Jenna Kutcher: Yes. And what's crazy about that is it wasn't even about the money. It was that when I finally unlocked time and got off that treadmill, that felt like it was never going to end. I was able to ask myself, like, what am I curious about? What do I want to learn? How do I want to grow?
[00:07:12] Jenna Kutcher: What do I want to try? What do I want to experiment with? And so, to go back to your question, Clay, the thing that I want you guys to hear is that if you prioritize your time, you will likely make more money. Because so many people are just constantly hitting the same wall day in and day out. And you're not actually looking up into this beautiful world that we're living in and seeing potential and possibility.
[00:07:40] Jenna Kutcher: And so every time my career trajectory took off, it was when I had really gotten laser focused at where is my time best spent right now. What do I want to learn? Whether it's making sourdough bread or learning how to be a beekeeper or trying to convince my husband to get chickens, whatever that is. But when I finally prioritize time, I feel like my life falls into place.
[00:08:02] Jenna Kutcher: And so it's like stepping off of that treadmill. And so I would just say that if you are someone who you're like, I want to scale. Or I want to change, or I want to pivot. What you have to do is you have to establish what is your enough point. Meaning, what is the bare minimum that you need to make to feel safe and secure?
[00:08:21] Jenna Kutcher: Because I believe it's impossible to unlock creativity without safety and security. But when you know that point, you stop booking the work, you stop taking the clients and you prioritize your time. And so that has just been like the key to my success. Whenever there's something I want to do, I figure out how do I get back my time because my time is my life.
[00:08:41] Clate Mask: I love that. How many of you can identify with that of not treating your time as Yes, right? I mean that, that's it. That's, that's what we, what we do as, as entrepreneurs. And I, we talk all the time about stop trading hours for dollars. You know, when we, when we're doing that, we get stuck in this. On the treadmill and it, it, it leads to a lot of burnout, a lot of frustration.
[00:09:06] Clate Mask: And, you know, I, I can't tell you how many times I've talked to an entrepreneur who hits seven figures and then eight figures, and it's not all it was cracked up to be in there. And they're like, Whoa, sometimes they were making more money and had personally take home and had more time when they were smaller.
[00:09:26] Clate Mask: And then they sort of romanticized the idea of just go back to that. Yeah. And, and yet there are ways as you've, you know, touched on here to actually change it so you're prioritizing the time and you can get, you can actually have more by, by bringing that focus down on your time. What are some of those things that you've done?
[00:09:46] Clate Mask: You know, you talked about, I learned some tools, some, some tricks, some of the strategies for how to do this. What are some things that people can do? Because I know, you know, we, we know people are in the audience. Dealing with that and some that didn't raise their hand or clap are like too frustrated to do that, right?
[00:09:59] Clate Mask: So so share some of those what are some of those things?
[00:10:03] Jenna Kutcher: Well, I am crazy about pinterest And I know a lot of the men already just turned their brains off when I said that word, but come back to me. Pinterest is a search engine. It's not social media. It's not just pretty pictures. It's not just collages.
[00:10:18] Jenna Kutcher: Pinterest is a search engine. And so we get over 25, 000 site visits per month, organically, without paying for ads from Pinterest, using a strategy that takes one hour a week. So the average marketer is spending between 16 and 20 hours a week on marketing. What if one hour a week went to Pinterest? Now here's where you need to listen.
[00:10:38] Jenna Kutcher: I, I made a reel this morning for my, for my Instagram feed. I'm the only person, I don't have a content team. I am the person responding to DMs and creating content. That damn reel took me at least an hour to create, right? That reel is going to live and die within three to five hours, 24 hours if I'm lucky.
[00:10:57] Jenna Kutcher: One pin on Pinterest lasts four months. So when you think about your content lifespan and how much time you're spending on creating content That is literally living and dying before anyone gets a chance to consume it It is crazy that that is where our precious non renewable time is going into so I love Pinterest It's an amazing way to grow your email list Because you can post all of your freebies and what's amazing is is that with Pinterest you could take one piece of content And create as many pins as you wanted pointing to that one piece of content.
[00:11:35] Jenna Kutcher: So if you have one opt in that you're running to grow your email list. You could create 50 pins that could all point to that one opt in and each singular pin has the average lifespan of four months. I still have blog posts and opt ins from years ago generating leads right now as we speak without me doing anything.
[00:11:57] Jenna Kutcher: So I just, I love Pinterest. I think it's such an underutilized resource. Um, if you are questioning if your content or your business would do well on there, you After this talk, go on Pinterest and just type in a few keywords and you will be shocked that there are already people in your industry finding success on Pinterest.
[00:12:16] Jenna Kutcher: So, that is one of the strategies and for me, when I became a mom, my time evaporated. And so I don't necessarily have hours to spend creating reels every single day. And so Pinterest was the way that I took a maternity leave because I knew that my content was still working for me while I was on maternity leave.
[00:12:34] Jenna Kutcher: Um, another thing that I think is so important is long form content. I just feel like so many of us are welds of knowledge and so many people ask the same questions over and over and over again. And so whether you have a podcast, a YouTube channel, or a blog, I, I've blogged since day one of my company. Um, it's beautiful to build out a library of resources that you can easily point people to and to send people to a place that you own on the internet that you can control their experience.
[00:13:05] Jenna Kutcher: I just fear that so many of us are building our businesses in borrowed spaces. We are literally renting space from people like Mark Zuckerberg, which, he's a genius, but That's not where I want my rent to be paid. And so I think that it's really important that we look at like, how do we own our content and how are we leveraging strategies so that the work that we're working so hard on is actually getting seen, consumed and giving us a direct results.
[00:13:29] Clate Mask: That is, there was so much good stuff. Sorry,
[00:13:32] Jenna Kutcher: that was a lot. I could go, I have a whole course about that. So sorry. That
[00:13:37] Clate Mask: was awesome. And she does have great courses about this. So let me, let me just hit on a couple of things that you said. So. One principle that I'm hearing you call out is leveraging your time by, by investing it in areas where it lives on.
[00:13:51] Clate Mask: Yes. You're, instead of doing something with a reel where it's gone in, you know, a couple days, you, you've got, uh, on Pinterest, it can live on for months and months and months. Second principle I'm hearing you call out really clearly is, um, own your content, uh, your content receptacles, for lack of a better term.
[00:14:10] Clate Mask: So blog, your email list, you kind of subtly hit on. Building your email list so that you own the email list instead of having your only having your social followers where you're really renting it there versus owning it in email and being able to drive people from Pinterest to email or to blogs. So I heard email and blogs is a way to own your content as opposed to renting on social media properties.
[00:14:32] Jenna Kutcher: Yeah. I would just say, you know, I have one of the top marketing podcasts in the country. And a lot of times people will say like, what is the simplest way to describe marketing? And I feel like every entrepreneur should have two focuses. And I think that part of the reason why we're so burnt out is that we have 20, right?
[00:14:49] Jenna Kutcher: And to me, the two focuses are one, growing your email list and two, every other activity that you're doing in your business, the number one goal should be to use that activity to grow your list. So if you are prioritizing Instagram, the goal of Instagram is not to get likes and comments. The goal on Instagram is to get people off of Instagram and onto your list.
[00:15:10] Jenna Kutcher: If you have a podcast, same thing. And so I think that we've gotten so muddled at looking at things like engagement, which feels really shiny. But when we look at the sharks, they're not asking you how many likes you get on a post. They're asking you like, what is the return on that platform? And I think a lot of us get so caught up in like, well, this performs well.
[00:15:32] Jenna Kutcher: Well, performance is great, but like, I want cash in the bank or I want time back in my life. And so that's what I'm looking at.
[00:15:39] Clate Mask: I love that you just shared that because. You have you and I have many friends who are so famous on social media and it hasn't translated into the financial success that they expected and there's a there's a hollow satisfaction and all those likes and all those follows and all of that insta fame but it's not actually turning into what they thought it would be and I think that one strategy that she just shared of Turning it from, from social platforms into email, email addresses where you can own that and then build it.
[00:16:14] Clate Mask: That one thing is what so many people overlook and especially younger entrepreneurs and they get caught up in it and I see it over and over. It's like, your list is your goal. That's it. Like, when you, when you have the list, you can do all kinds of incredible things. So I'm, I'm really glad that you called that out.
[00:16:30] Clate Mask: Um, let me, let me ask you this. Um, you, you mentioned amidst all of those nuggets that you were dropping, one of the things you said was get clear on what you will work for and how you will, you will invest your time and treat it that way. Um, I don't know if you've read Buy Back Your Time by Dan Martell.
[00:16:48] Clate Mask: Good friend, I don't know if you know Dan, but, um, He does a really great job in that book of spelling out how you determine what things you should be investing your time in based on, um, what, what you, what you decide is the income that you want to have. And so, if you, if you haven't read that book, I highly recommend it.
[00:17:06] Clate Mask: Um, Buy Back Your Time is a, is a concept that's, in fact, Dan came and had some of his, uh, students come do a, uh, a session, a mastermind session at our office a few months back, and I was just getting the book out, and, and I hadn't read his book. And afterward, I read his book and I texted him. I said, dude, this is like, this is like the exact compliment to what I teach in my book around automation.
[00:17:31] Clate Mask: And so I, I highly recommend it. It's really good. And you touched on one of the principles there of know what it is you're willing to invest your time for from a dollar standpoint, how I want to just. I want to take a, have you take a minute more on that because I, I think you are world class at knowing when and where to invest your time and then putting boundaries in place.
[00:17:53] Clate Mask: There's, it seems like there's two sides of it. One is knowing. What's it worth to go and do that? And then the other side is like, okay. And therefore I'm not going to do these things or this, these times share a little bit of the, some of the practical tips around how you've done that.
[00:18:08] Jenna Kutcher: So one of the things, so, um, I became a mom six years ago.
[00:18:13] Jenna Kutcher: After a couple of years struggle. And so when I was in those years of waiting, I promised myself that I wasn't going to waste that waiting season, that I really wanted to work in the waiting so that I could be the type of mom I wanted to be when the babies finally came. And, uh, my one thing that I think was really interesting, even with the shark tank is, um, I have not created a new offer besides writing my book in the last.
[00:18:39] Jenna Kutcher: Six years. So since I became a mom, my business has been rinse and repeat for six years and it's growing, right? It's only growing. And I think what's really fascinating, and I am a visionary, I am multi-passionate. I have pivoted a million times, and yet I recognize that the rinse and the repeat is the gift and not the burden.
[00:19:01] Jenna Kutcher: Because I think a lot of times as creatives that can feel constraining. But what is so beautiful is that I can run a multimillion dollar company. And I can put my daughter down for her nap, and I can be there, and I can, and I do a four day work week, and I hire moms, and it's like, it's just this beautiful thing.
[00:19:20] Jenna Kutcher: And so, what's been really interesting to me is that if the idea of a rinse and repeat business sounds boring to you, how do you make it fun again? Like, how do you gamify it? And so like for this year, it was like looking into data and optimizing and some of those like boring things that are so awesome when you like change a headline and your conversion goes up by like 0.
[00:19:40] Jenna Kutcher: 2 and you're like, yes, this is it. Um, and so it's like, how do you add that excitement back in? And so for me, it's like go deep, not wide. And the deeper I go, the greater I get to serve people, but also like the greater my life gets. Like, I don't want to be rich in my bank account and bankrupt in life. And trust me, I have met so many people in that place.
[00:20:02] Jenna Kutcher: And I have been fortunate to sit in rooms of incredibly successful people. And no matter what happens, every time I go home, I'm like, I might have the smallest business there, but I am the most at peace person in the room. And that's all I want, you know, and so thank you. Um, and so I just think that like the rinse and the repeat is like so many of you are sitting on gold mines that you gave up on and so how do you Look at what your offers are what you've already created.
[00:20:32] Jenna Kutcher: That is so And how do you commit to getting it to the people you created it for? Because I know it's fun and flashy to always be creating something new, and I think a lot of times entrepreneurs, actually Dan talks about this in his book, That entrepreneurs crave chaos. A lot of times we've come from chaotic backgrounds and there's some sort of peace in the chaos.
[00:20:54] Jenna Kutcher: And I would say push on that until it's so uncomfortable that you're sitting still with yourself. Um, and so I would say that's like the biggest thing. And I told Clay yesterday, I was like, In a year where a lot of people's businesses are struggling to perform, our courses are up 30 percent this year and it's the same courses I've been teaching for six years.
[00:21:14] Jenna Kutcher: So if you're sitting in this room right now, can you imagine doing the same thing for the next six years and just getting better every single time you do it? Because that's what I think a real entrepreneur can commit to. And I think that that's sometimes required.
[00:21:26] Clate Mask: Amazing. Amazing. Um, we all know that as entrepreneurs, we have, you know, shiny object syndrome, and I hope you have heard very clearly from two incredibly talented, creative entrepreneurs on stage today.
[00:21:44] Clate Mask: Sabri, as well as Jenna, are both incredible creators. And I don't know if you heard Sabri say this, but he said one of the ways that I satiate that desire, that, that natural tendency I have is to just tweak my offers and go create things, but instead of creating what's behind it. And you've heard Jenna say the same thing.
[00:22:07] Clate Mask: And you know, we know that we have a tendency as entrepreneurs to go do something different. Instead of like it's acres of diamonds. It's right there. It's just focusing on improving and refining and making it better and better. And I love the way that you articulated that and what you've practiced for six years, just refining it and making it better and better.
[00:22:26] Clate Mask: Incredible. Awesome stuff. Okay. A couple of other things that, um, yesterday we were talking and we know that a lot of times, and this kind of came up in, in, um, the shark tank as well, that, that will grow the business and the top line is growing, but the. But the operations are getting messy and, and the, you know, Stop me if you haven't heard this story before.
[00:22:51] Clate Mask: The, the profit or the take home pay is the same at 500, 000 as it was at 100, 000. Right? You, you start to bump into these profitability scale problems. Revenue's going and, you know, everybody thinks that's great and the business owner's kind of like, yeah, but.
[00:23:06] Darrin Adams: Mm hmm.
[00:23:07] Clate Mask: So, um, what, what have you seen in terms of the, in terms of the tips and tricks?
[00:23:14] Clate Mask: What are some of the operational efficiencies? Because you've talked about time efficiencies on sort of a, Um, on a, you know, how do you invest in it? But there's also so much of the back office. And we, we were talking yesterday about how it can get really messy when you look inside some of the entrepreneur's businesses.
[00:23:31] Clate Mask: What if, you know, I, by the way, I didn't know this until yesterday. I kind of feel bad about this. I've known that Jenna, obviously, is a longtime Keap customer. But I didn't know about the person that you have that's leading it and driving it who is such an efficiency maiden. You told me she was really good.
[00:23:48] Clate Mask: But when we talked yesterday. You talked about some of the things that she's done. I'd love to maybe if you could just maybe share a little bit about what you and she have done in your business or what you see others could be doing where getting their systems, their automation, their operations in a better place can improve their business.
[00:24:05] Jenna Kutcher: Our business model is working from a place of rest and not stress. And so whenever we step into other people's businesses, my team is like, hell no, I will never work for anyone else. Because To me, as entrepreneurs, our job should be to anticipate. And most of the time you should be able to properly anticipate exactly what you're going to need to get your offer out into the world, how you're going to deliver it.
[00:24:31] Jenna Kutcher: And I think that again, looking at the rinse and repeat model of a business, it allows you to be so good at anticipating that there are no wildfires to put out. Um, we do a four day work week. We do not use our cell phones for business. So I will never get a text from a team member unless it's an emergency.
[00:24:49] Jenna Kutcher: My phone is to connect with my family and my friends. And so we've set up these really beautiful boundaries of like, when you're working, you're working. And when you're in your life, you're in your life. And I never want to be the person that pulls you out of a moment with your child or with your spouse or with your partner or your family.
[00:25:05] Jenna Kutcher: And so in order to build that, we've had to get really good at SOPs, right? And so it's like, we are building things weeks or months in advance. That is just how we work. Like today, I was already planning out January content, because we are done for the rest of the year. It is locked, loaded, every email has been tested.
[00:25:26] Jenna Kutcher: Inside of Keap, everything has been built. So we are constantly anticipating and working ahead. Okay. And if you don't have a business where you can do that, you need to figure out how you can start building one, because that is how I sleep well at night. Right? Like I used to go to bed and my brain would be racing.
[00:25:44] Jenna Kutcher: And I'm like, once I had kids, I'm like, I need sleep, like actual sleep. Um, and so you have to figure that out. The other thing that I would say is like, so many of us are unorganized. Does anyone else here have ADHD? Cause that's me. I was like so embarrassed at my hotel room because I look like a bachelor when I'm not with my husband.
[00:26:02] Jenna Kutcher: Um, and I have had to learn how to like be so organized in how I'm storing things in the company because how many of us spend 20 minutes looking for a Google Doc? We can't remember what we titled it, we don't know where it is, right? It is the worst, right? And you're like, Can somebody find the damn doc?
[00:26:19] Jenna Kutcher: And so I have had to learn how to create basically like a whole depository for my company. We use a program called Monday. There's a sauna, there's base camp. There's all of those different ones, but that is like the home and the hub of everything. And so. What's interesting to me is that, like, we just, with the rinse and repeat, whether I'm launching a course about Pinterest or podcasting or email list building or whatever, it's the same process every single time.
[00:26:44] Jenna Kutcher: We need the same web pages built, we need the same landing pages, we need the email sequence, and so we should be able to anticipate months in advance. And so I feel like burnout comes from when you are working last minute, you get that adrenaline rush and then that crash, and then you're like, I never want to do that again.
[00:27:01] Jenna Kutcher: So how do you create, and Dan is so good at this. I mean, literally in that book, I've bought that book for my team. It's such a great book, but every single area of my business has a process. And that process is how we run it. And so it's so efficient and it like saves us so much time.
[00:27:19] Clate Mask: Yeah. Oh, so, so good there that you're.
[00:27:23] Clate Mask: Calling out the SOPs that are not the very exciting work that entrepreneurs. It doesn't,
[00:27:29] Jenna Kutcher: here's what's crazy though, is like as somebody with ADHD and someone who is so creative and passionate, there was a time in my life where like, even having meetings on my calendar felt too constraining. Like I was like, I don't know what I'm going to want to do on Tuesday morning at 9am.
[00:27:43] Jenna Kutcher: I can't commit to a meeting. And now in my life, I've recognized that like SOPs and boundaries and plans. Allow me to fully experience my life, right? It allows me to unlock the freedom that I craved in the first place. Whereas before plans felt like they were like trapping me in and having that those specific SOPs just felt like constraining the creative in me and now I'm like no those things unlock the creativity because I have time to experiment and time to like Actually stay in the driver's seat.
[00:28:16] Jenna Kutcher: Okay.
[00:28:17] Clate Mask: So what, what made that switch?
[00:28:21] Jenna Kutcher: Facing children. I mean, I can't just like be on following my whims anymore. You know, babies need me. Um, yeah. So that I think kids were what it, because I want to be creative with my children now, right? Like that is the real creativity. Like I want to be. Playing on the floor with them and not thinking about the email I didn't get to.
[00:28:41] Jenna Kutcher: And so it's like my creativity shifted from this business where I was creating all these new offers to like, How can I like be the best bear to scare my five year old in the, you know, in the bunk beds? Like that, that's where it shifted for me.
[00:28:54] Clate Mask: Okay, I, I love this because I want to unpack it a little bit because I'm sure that when Jen is talking about the calendar and the meetings or the SOPs or whatever the processes are, those things can seem constraining.
[00:29:11] Clate Mask: They can feel constraining, especially the more creative the entrepreneur is, the more that that feels constraining. But you made a shift there and for you it was your kids, which is amazing. I love that. Thank you for sharing that with us. And you said something as you were saying that though, that it enabled you to experience the beauty and the things you really wanted.
[00:29:34] Clate Mask: And I think that actually is sometimes the problem. We don't slow down enough. And this is what I talk about in Conquer the Chaos. We don't actually create the vision for life and a rhythm of how we will execute that vision. And so the business just crowds everything out. And We all know that if we let it, the business will, it will consume everything.
[00:29:57] Clate Mask: It will take all the time. There's, there aren't enough hours in the day, so there's always more to do. And. If we're not clear from a, from a life vision standpoint of what matters the most, what, you know, what, what do we care about, what is really beautiful in life aside from the business, then the business just takes over.
[00:30:14] Clate Mask: And we, we love our business. You love your business, I'm sure. You know, we, we love our business as entrepreneurs. But I think if you can take this principle of, well, if you're feeling constrained, if you're feeling like, You're, you're entrepreneurial, um, you know, juices are just not being able to, to get out there because you have too many meetings and you have too many, um, um, processes and, and systems work that you have to do.
[00:30:39] Clate Mask: Well, actually, it's just a matter of getting clear on what would those things free you up to do, then you start saying no to those things, even though it may not be in that moment, what you're, what feels the most, you know, urgent, but you've got to say no to some of those things to experience, you know, The beauty, then you start to put more of that beauty into place.
[00:30:59] Clate Mask: And it sounds like for you, kids and family pulled you to, this is what's beautiful, therefore I want to have these constraints in place that make that possible.
[00:31:09] Jenna Kutcher: Yeah, I mean, I think, especially for women, are there any other women who are like, firstborn daughter energy, or like, people pleaser energy, or taking care of everybody else energy?
[00:31:20] Jenna Kutcher: That's us. Um, you know, for me, I, I used to see boundaries as this negative thing, right? Like boundaries are going to keep people and things and opportunities out of my life. And I think that so many of us, we've seen all of those Hallmark movies of like, you know, you bump into the guy at the coffee shop and all of a sudden you're married with kids.
[00:31:41] Jenna Kutcher: And we write these stories in our head. And I've recognized that boundaries don't keep things out of my life. Boundaries keep me in my life. And that has been so powerful for me because with every no that I've said. Some more beautiful yes came out of it. And this year, I've kind of been on like a little joy journey of like, what brings me joy outside of work and motherhood?
[00:32:06] Jenna Kutcher: Because for the last six years, I've been consumed in that. And that was when I started making sourdough bread, and we became beekeepers, and I joined the local rowing club, and I had all the I started a garden. I had all these hobbies outside of work. And I remember talking to one of my dear friends, who you know, And I said, you know, do you have friendships outside of the industry?
[00:32:27] Jenna Kutcher: Like who, who are your people? Like, who is your community? Um, do you have hobbies? Do you have purpose outside of the work? We started volunteering at the local soup kitchen, like just being like deeply integrative into like the richness of life. And I. Just feel like for so many of us, that's the space that we're lacking, right?
[00:32:47] Jenna Kutcher: Like we, we might be able to walk into a room like this and talk about our success, but like at the end of the, our lives, like our headstones are not going to read, like she made this much in revenue, like that's, that's not it. And so for me, boundaries have just unlocked the ability to be creative and curious in life.
[00:33:08] Jenna Kutcher: and I feel so rich, um, which is so beautiful. And so I would just say to, uh, one of the team members was just talking about like, oh, I'm going to email you. And I was like, Girl, read my autoresponder because it says I suck at email. You probably won't hear back from me. Uh, we work a four day work week So we're not on on friday like and it was just like it sets the stage and the precedent of like here are my values And i'm not just gonna tell you them you're like i mean you're gonna see them
[00:33:35] Clate Mask: in all seriousness You should send an email just so you can see
[00:33:40] Jenna Kutcher: my team like what happened and
[00:33:43] Clate Mask: Use it it is amazing if you if you want to see how to set boundaries in a very clear concrete way By the way with with grace and personality and you do it so well I the first time I mean email that I was like that is amazing.
[00:33:59] Clate Mask: It really is you please do it
[00:34:00] Jenna Kutcher: kids I mean and I think too it's just like a remote I feel like especially for women and that's who I mostly speak to but I feel like when I enforce my boundaries, it unlocks permission for other women to do the same because you see that you can do it in a gentle and kind way.
[00:34:16] Jenna Kutcher: And when I turn down opportunities, I very clearly state like, this is not a reflection on you or the opportunity. It's just a reflection on me and my values. Um, and I feel like, again, it just kind of gives more women the permission.
[00:34:29] Clate Mask: Love it. It's fantastic. You said, you know, there were so many things in there I'd like to comment, but one of the things you said a little bit earlier was the point about when.
[00:34:37] Clate Mask: First, you're, you're lying that boundaries don't keep things out, they keep me in, um, in your life, right? And this, the other thing that you said, though, was something that I learned from my coach many years ago. And it was, and, um, I don't know about you, but sometimes I have to learn things again and again and again.
[00:34:56] Clate Mask: So, I've learned this many times, and he brought it to my attention the first time, how powerful this is, that when we say, um, Yes to something we're saying no to someone that oftentimes we really love and This is a hard one. This is a hard one I'll tell you I have emotion around this because I've made this mistake many times because we get so in the rush of entrepreneurship It's so fun.
[00:35:21] Clate Mask: There's so there's so many great things about it. My wife calls it We get so excited about different things and we say yes to And we're saying no to someone that we love, someone that we care about. And sometimes it's, um, you know, a team member. And I, so I had to get really clear at one point about, Okay, here's, you know, my, kind of my, my pecking order.
[00:35:46] Clate Mask: And it was, you know, my God and my family and my, and my, um, my team. And, you know, kind of going through it. And there were a lot of people that wanted time that, you know, I was saying no to one of those other things. And so, um, I really appreciate you calling that, calling out the point of, we're saying no to something else when we say yes.
[00:36:05] Clate Mask: And a lot of times we say yes with very unclear maybes. And if we can get more clear on the no's, no's are actually really kind. The next best thing to a no is a clear, to a yes is a clear no. And if we can just do that clearly, and I appreciate you sharing that because I think as entrepreneurs, we get sucked into it a little bit and, and unwittingly we've said yes to all these things that are crowding out other areas in our life.
[00:36:32] Clate Mask: Um, we've got just a couple minutes left here, and I definitely want you to give people, um, you know, your ways to follow you, learn more about you, and, and practice some of these boundaries, setting things in your life. Um, very much the message you're sharing is at the heart of the book, Conquer the Chaos.
[00:36:50] Clate Mask: And like Dan says, entrepreneurs can be addicted to chaos. And if we don't practice the person, the three personal keys of mindset, vision, rhythm, and the three. Business keys of strategy, automation, and leadership. We find ourselves caught in the chaos as we kind of wrap up here. Um, when you reflect on the, the, the accomplishment that you've been able to make in terms of balance, I'm not talking about the revenue right now.
[00:37:18] Clate Mask: I'm talking about, I'm not talking about the amazing followings you have on socials. I'm talking about the balance. And when you think about that journey, you've been on, you're What would you leave as kind of the highlights of the techniques, successful things you've done? We've talked about a lot of things, but if you could just kind of emphasize key things as people are trying to strike this balance, what would you share?
[00:37:40] Jenna Kutcher: I would say look at what you've already built and how can you go deeper on it and not wider? How can you make it fun again? Because you've already built amazing things, and so how can you make that feel shiny? Setting a culture within your company, whether you have one employee or a virtual VA or 20 people working for you or a hundred is what is the culture that helps people have lives outside of their work?
[00:38:10] Jenna Kutcher: Uh, and how do you honor and celebrate that? Um, we have like so many fun little Slack channels of like recipes we're making, or we have one called grandma habits. Cause we like to like knit and quilt and do random things on my team. And how do you celebrate it? the wholeness of the person, um, that you are working with.
[00:38:30] Jenna Kutcher: And I would say to not get too far away from your work or the people that you're serving. Um, you know, I joke that like, I am the person making the reels and answering the DMs, but I think that part of that is like staying so connected to the humans that care enough to follow, right? Like, I think a lot of times we over strategize Areas that we miss that connection and I believe that like that connection is the gift um, and so If you feel like you've gotten far away from your customer or your client or even your follower like how do you get back in those trenches and just connect because You know, we talked about this yesterday where a lot of times you grow your company because you're relatable.
[00:39:16] Jenna Kutcher: You, you've been through something and you overcame it and your customer sees that and now they want to do the same. And I think that in those early stages, we're so connected, right? Like we're so fresh on what that pain point is that we're solving But if you continue to just build and scale and build and scale and build and scale You can forget like what you're actually helping people do like I don't just help people market on pinterest I help people who create amazing things be seen.
[00:39:45] Jenna Kutcher: And so it's like, what is that way to stay connected to your mission, to stay connected to your customer, and to stay connected to the products that you've already built that are already amazing, and how do you get them to the people you created them for?
[00:39:58] Clate Mask: Amazing. Thank you so much for taking time to inspire the audience here for doing this as a Conquer the Chaos podcast episode that we'll get out to people.
[00:40:08] Clate Mask: Thank you so much for investing here and, and being able to share some of the things that you've learned to create an amazing balance in your life. And where can people learn more about you, uh, so that they can go a little deeper on what you teach? Oh,
[00:40:20] Jenna Kutcher: yeah. Uh, the Goal Digger podcast. It's G O A L. My husband is a Stay at home, dad.
[00:40:25] Jenna Kutcher: He ain't no goal guy. Uh, so Goal Digger podcast is anywhere podcasts are. And then Jenna Kutcher, like Ashton on all the platforms. And I would personally love to connect with each of you. So if anyone sends a DM, it will personally be me reading it at the airport. Um, and so just thank you so much and thank you for your time.
[00:40:44] Jenna Kutcher: And, um, yeah, I hope that this touched you in some way.
[00:40:48] Clate Mask: Awesome. Let's give it up for Jenna. Thank you. Amazing
[00:40:58] Clate Mask: Thanks so much for listening. Subscribe right here on YouTube or in your favorite podcast app to make sure that you don't miss a single episode of the Conquer the Cast podcast. And hey, if you like this episode, let's get this out to more entrepreneurs. We all know that it is not easy to grow a great business and a great life, and so.
[00:41:14] Clate Mask: Let's get this message out to others. Make sure that you hit the like button that you comment and that you share it with others so that we can help other entrepreneurs build a great business and a great life as they conquer the chaos. Keep going, keep serving and keep growing.