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Conquer the Chaos: Goal Setting to Score Your “Life Goals” with the Double Win with Michael Hyatt

In this episode of Conquer the Chaos, Michael Hyatt, founder and chairman of Full Focus, joins Clate Mask to explore the concept of achieving the "double win" in life, balancing success in work and personal life. Together they explore practical strategies for goal setting, introducing the "SMARTER" framework emphasizing specificity, measurability, excitement, and risk, while acknowledging the crucial role of emotion in goal attainment.

 

Transcript

Welcome to Conquer the Chaos where entrepreneurs share real stories of how they mastered their own chaos and found success. Host Clate Mask takes you behind the scenes to hear the tough lessons learned so you don't repeat them. These are the stories you don't hear every day.


Clate Mask (00:27):
Welcome everyone to this episode of the Conquer the Chaos podcast. I am Clate Mask, your co-host and CEO of Keap, and I'm so excited today to bring to you someone with great wisdom that is going to help you conquer the chaos and in particular, practice the three personal keys to success. I'm going to now welcome Michael Hyatt. Thank you so much, Michael, for being with us.


Michael Hyatt (00:50):
Clate, thanks for having me.


Clate Mask (00:51):
You bet. Thanks so much. I would love for the audience to get a little bit of a taste of who you are. You and I have begun, have gotten closer here in the past year or so, but in the past we've had a relationship from a business standpoint with your usage of Keap, and then more recently you've joined our advisory board and we've gotten to know each other and I've loved and just thrilled at how the three personal keys to success that we talk about and conquer the chaos fit so well with what you teach. Why don't you take just a minute and share with our audience a little bit about you and what you and your company teach.


Michael Hyatt (01:27):
Well, thank you. We believe in something called the Double Win and that everybody deserves to have the double win, which is to win at work and succeed at life. So many business owners are willing, or at least it seems this way, that they're willing to sacrifice everything for the success of their business. It's not unusual to meet people that have got a very successful business, but have a very toxic marriage or their health is falling apart or their most important relationships are in trouble. That doesn't have to be true. No, it requires some planning and it requires making some decisions, but it can be done. In terms of me, I've been married for 46 years to my first wife and we have five grown daughters, we have 10 grandchildren and all of them live within 20 minutes of us, and the 10 grandkids live within five minutes of us.


Michael Hyatt (02:24):
That's been a lot of fun and we make our family really a priority. There's a time in the past when I didn't make it a priority and it's how I got to the double win was because I was one of those guys that was killing it at work. Meanwhile, my family is suffering, my health is suffering everything else, but our business is called Full focus and basically we're committed to helping people get the double win. We do that through a variety of tools. We have something called the Faux Focus Planner, which is an analog planner because we've found that even though I'm a super digital guy, I love computers, but there's so much distraction notifications and all this stuff that happens in the digital world. So we said, well, what if we could build an analog planner that would enable people to kind of pull out of that chaos and be able to organize their lives and stay on track? We have a bunch of courses and certified pro programs and a lot of different things, but that's the essence of it.


Clate Mask (03:18):
I love it, Michael. I love what you do at Full Focus and I'm right there with you. I love the digital world, but I've found that for planning and getting clarity on vision and rhythm of execution, analog is the way to go. It enables us, especially as very ambitious, driven entrepreneurs who tend to be a little ADHD, when we get the screens in front of us, we get distracted. When instead we get into a pensive, thoughtful place where we can write things out, it has the effect of really building it into our minds and into our souls. I love what you do at Full Focus. Will you take just a minute and talk about how you got to the discovery of the double win? What was it that you were doing? Because you made the statement that it seems many business owners, many entrepreneurs are willing to sacrifice everything for the success at work.


(04:19):
Obviously I see the same thing and I'm super passionate about it, which is one of the driving reasons I wrote the book. But what I've found is it happens very subtly and people, they're not intentional. They're not consciously aware of what's happening. Like you said, it seems that they're willing to sacrifice, but if you ask them straight up, they'd say, no, no, that's not what I want to do. I don't want to do that. How did you get sucked into that world of focusing totally on business? Certainly I've been there as well, so I understand it, but I'd love to hear a little bit about your story that led to the discovery of the double win.


Michael Hyatt (04:55):
Yeah, thanks for asking. Yeah, I spent most of my career in the book publishing industry and I just loved books and loved that business, loved the mission of our company. I was working at Thomas Nelson Publishers here in Nashville where I reside. Thomas Nelson is now owned by Harper Collins. It's the seventh largest book publisher in the country. But I was working there and I got this opportunity to become the general manager for one of Thomas Nelson's 14 book publishing divisions. It'd been a lifelong dream. I was super excited about it, but I discovered a few days into the job that that division out of 14 divisions was dead last in revenue production, in profitability, in divisional morale. I mean every metric you could measure, we were last. And so the CEO said to me, I was reporting to him, he said to me, how long will it take you to turn this division around?


(05:47):
I just pulled a number out of the air and I said, I think it's going to be about three years. He said, well, that's kind of what I was thinking too. What I didn't realize at the time, but if you're ever going to get to manage or lead a group like that, being dead last at the start is a huge advantage. I realized I couldn't screw it up, so I just showed up. I could make it better. We rolled up our sleeves. We were working nights and weekends and my whole entire team was, and so we were able to turn that division around in a year and a half. We went from number 14 to number one, fastest growing division, most profitable division, best morale, partly because of the morale part, because we all got the biggest bonus checks we'd ever gotten because we turned that division around.


(06:30):
I got a check that was bigger than my annual salary. I couldn't believe it. I was giddy. I drove home knowing that my wife would be thrilled to see this check and this would validate all the hard work I'd put in and everything else. I bounce in through the back door, I find her in the house, I unfurl the check and I say, look at this. Well, my wife is a huge cheerleader, but she didn't look too excited. She looked at that check and she said, I think we need to talk and my heart sank. We walked into the den, we sat down and she began to tear up. She said, first of all, I want to just say that I love you and I appreciate everything you do for our family, but I got to be honest, you're never home. Even when you are home, your head's somewhere else, you're distracted and your five daughters need you now more than ever. Then she started to cry and she said, if I'm honest, I feel like a single mom. Well, I was like a spear through my chest. I mean, I felt it was not what I was going for. I just thought, wow. I also felt very conflicted Clate because I thought, how do I make this work?


(07:41):
I felt like I was facing something. I know alcohol is an impossible choice. You can win at work or you can succeed at life. You can't do both. Most business people, when they get in that position, they do one of two things. Either they decide to just like, look, I'm going to put my family, my health, do the minimum, try to make this work in the business, and someday I'll give my family the time and attention they deserve. Some people are a little smarter than that and they apply the ambition break and say, whoa, I'm going to throttle back my ambition for the sake of my family and health. Honestly, for people that are really high achievers and all that, that's not very satisfying either. I began this quest asking myself the question, could there be a third way where you could win at work and succeed at life? That became a multi-year quest and became my life's mission. Yeah, that's how it all started.


Clate Mask (08:43):
I absolutely love it. I love it because of the personal experience you had, you're very fortunate that you had a wife that spoke up and was clear about what she wanted and what was happening. Because a lot of times for the successful entrepreneur that's going down this path, everybody sort of gets sucked into the success at work and the paycheck and the money that's coming in. It can be a very subtle boiling the frog way of getting to a place where there are a lot of regrets. I love that your wife was able to articulate clearly what she needed, what the kids needed, and that you were in a place where you could hear it even though you got that check. Because I love your point that when you're in that situation, you feel like you can't win. You feel like, gosh, I am trying to do it.


(09:39):
What makes it all the more challenging is the entrepreneur's ego is sitting there saying, look, you're doing this for the family. Come on, how come they don't appreciate you? The reality is you are doing it for the family to a certain extent, but there's also a part of it that the ego is very appeased and gratified by the success, the size of the check, the winds, those things are all intoxicating to the business owner and the entrepreneur if we're very honest about it. But you were able to hear it and take stock and go, okay, I need to make some adjustments. I think part of the reason why I feel like we're kindred spirits is that I've been through something very similar. I recognize what it is for entrepreneurs when they're in that place where it feels like I can either win at home or I can win at work, but doing both seems impossible.


(10:30):
I came at it from the place of automation, which changes the game and puts more hours into the day for the entrepreneur. Secondly, sort of the planning and the organization, and I think you came at it from the place of the planning and the organization. Then secondly, the automation, which is kind of the inverse or the compliment to the way that I've done it. But in both cases, I think we're both just super ambitious driven CEOs. You left out the part that you became the CEO of the publishing company, which I know you had that experience and had a public company board of directors, all of that. But we also, I think, clear both of us that our family matters most and we've pushed to prioritize that. By the way, I still made plenty of mistakes. Cherise has told me the same thing about feeling like a single mom, and it's just that I've got six kids, six grandkids, we've been married for over 30 years now, almost 31.


(11:35):
We love our lives together. At the same time, it's constantly working at it in an intentional way where we work to have the win at work and the win at home. As I say in the book, balance growth in your business and personal life, that is success for entrepreneurs. So thank you for sharing that. I love it. Maybe one thing you've shared before that I think really helps the mindset of the entrepreneur when they're in that place where they feel like, gosh, I can't win. Again, the ego plays this trick on you. Like why try? Because it's so challenging to try to get this double win and balance is not worth pursuing. It's really more about harmony. You hear all these different things when the reality is semantics aside, we're just trying to succeed both at home and in our work. You made a point that I think really helps people set the mindset, and you shared that with me about what the entrepreneur needs to admit in order to be able to get into that place where they can win. You want to share a little bit about that, about just how it is too much?


Michael Hyatt (12:38):
Yeah. I think most entrepreneurs I meet are also overwhelmed. They've got too much to do and you've got to come to the place where you admit that there's more work to be done than you can humanly get done. The truth is that not all work is created equal. Some work really moves you forward both in your personal life and in your business life. Some work is just kind of busy work. I think that one of the things we have to admit as entrepreneurs, and particularly this is, I see this in a lot of men, it's easier to spend time at work because we get accolades, we get the rewards, we get the psychological satisfaction, and we don't have to be as home as much where all the chaos is. I mean, you can go for years and you think, are my kids going to turn out?


(13:36):
I mean, I'm doing everything I know to do, but it's just messy and doesn't work and all that. But at work, you feel confident. You feel confident. People are reaffirming that all the time. I think we have to understand the psychological thing there. I think something you also mentioned that was powerful was that it's really easy to convince ourselves that our situation, no matter how overwhelming it is, is temporary. The problem is that one temporary situation bleeds into the next temporary situation which bleeds into the next temporary situation, which before you know it, you got a way of life. I lied to myself and to my family for years. I'd say, well, as soon as I get this marketing director hired, then I won't have to do two jobs and I can give you the time and attention you deserve.


(14:24):
As soon as I get this product launched, whatever it is. But one of the first things I did after that conversation with Gail and the den is that I hired a business coach and he said to me, I told him, I said, I'm just overwhelmed. I'm trying to get all this stuff balanced. He said, I think you've got to establish hard boundaries. He said, because my guess is, tell me if I'm wrong, but he said, there are no boundaries in the middle of the afternoon. If you're working on a project, you think, well, I can't get this done, but no problem. I'll go home, grab a quick meal with a family, pop open the laptop and finish, and you get to Friday and you're not quite done and you think that's okay. I can do this Saturday morning or Saturday afternoon or Sunday afternoon or whatever it is.


(15:06):
You have to establish hard boundaries. He said to me, are you willing to establish hard boundaries? I said, I think what do you mean? He said, is there a time you're willing to cut off work at the end of each day and not go back to it until the next morning? He said, I don't care what the time is, but can you pick a time? I said, yes, 6:00 PM I do a lot better than that now, but 6:00 PM at the time. He said, are you willing to not work on the weekends? I said, yes. He said, are you willing to not work on your vacations? I was the guy that would get up before the family jam through a bunch of emails and just try to keep working through my vacation. Of course I'd come home not refreshed. That's why people say, I need a vacation from my vacation. So I said, yeah, I'm willing to do all that. He said, great. Here's the kicker. He said, I'm sure then you won't mind if I call Gail periodically and check in to see how you're doing. That accountability changed everything. He only did it a couple times, but he did do it. I always knew that that was in the background and I better behave.


Clate Mask (16:10):
Well, I appreciate you sharing that and the point about when we first accepted that there's too much to do, that's part of what I describe when I talk about small business chaos. I say it comes because there's too much to do in small business and there's inadequate systems and processes to do it, and that creates chaos. But we have to admit that there's just more than we can ever get to in small business. If we don't do that, then we find ourselves really playing out a lie in our mind that somehow we're going to get to the end of it. Then it shows up in the statements we make where you talked about how we treat the issue as though it's temporary. The way I would always say it is, I'm just in the middle of this huge thing right now. Cherise would say, well, there's always something huge.


(17:00):
She was right. She was exactly right. I appreciate the point about the boundaries and being disciplined in a way as entrepreneurs where we can actually be present and turn things off. It takes a level of intentionality that most of us as entrepreneurs have not buckled down to really embrace. I love what you teach because there is a way to actually do all that is required. Maybe not. You can't do everything, but you can do all that's required if you prioritize and if you put the boundaries in place and actually focus on the things that need that focus, hence your whole company's name full focus to get the double win. I love it. I appreciate you sharing that. Let me shift gears a little bit here. There's one thing I've noticed as I have worked with entrepreneurs and in particular since the book came out, I've had a lot of questions around the personal keys and in particular how you set the life vision.


(18:06):
As people who've read the book know, I talk about the five areas or the five parts of life, vision, identity, purpose, values, mission and goals, and then the goals break out into five areas of life, spiritual, physical, social, financial and business. It's kind of a framework that I offer to people and I say, listen, it's not the best framework. It's a framework and it works really well for me. So use it, adapt it however you like. I know you have a framework as well, but there's one common point and a question I get that's common between your framework and what I share. I think you've done a lot of thinking around this and could probably guide the audience on this. The question is, how do I set my life vision? It's difficult when they see my recommendation of your identity, who I am, my purpose, why I do what I do, my values, how I go about life as my main characteristics that I prize my mission of why I'm on this earth and what I look to accomplish over the course of my life and then my goals in my areas of life. But how do you recommend people sit down and actually articulate a vision for their life?


Michael Hyatt (19:21):
I wrote a book with the executive coach that actually guided me out of that situation with Gail. We wrote a book called Living Forward, which was all about how to do life planning, and we provided a template there for people to use. However, we found that most people would not follow through and do it. The reason is because nobody likes to look at a blank page on a computer screen and feel like they got to write something. It's so monumental about their life. It just seems so heavy, so much gravity to it, and people get stuck. So we said, what can we do to take the friction out of this? We developed a course and a kit called Life Focus, and what life focus is, it's got a guidebook, it's got a book you put your life plan in, but then it's got 11 decks of cards.


(20:17):
There's a deck for core values. So all you have to do, I think it's about 60 cards. There's a bunch of synonyms on each one and separate into three piles, those that resonate, those that don't resonate at all, and those that might resonate. Then we force you to push the middle pile into one of the other two. But we want you to come up with 6, 7, 8 core values. We do the same thing on mission and we do the same thing on your desired future. In my framework, we have nine different domains of life and there's a card deck for each one of those. So body is one of 'em. So what do you envision 10 years from now? That's the planning horizon that we use. What do you envision 10 years from now? So it makes it super fun, super easy, love it.


(21:01):
You can modify any of the things we say on the cards, but that way at least the pump is primed. You don't have to start from a dry well, and we've had enormous success with that. I forgot one other thing. We have such values, then we have a mission, and then we have the desired future. Another part of it is your current trajectory. In other words, if nothing changes, where are you going to end up in each of these domains? That's kind of a frightening thing because a lot of people discover, oh my gosh, if I don't change something, I'm putting my family at risk. I'm putting my health at risk, whatever it is. It's just helpful to get a sense for that. We have a whole assessment that helps people work on that and figure that out.


Clate Mask (21:41):
Yeah, I love that. Sometimes that seeing clearly what your default future is, is the motivation to go, oh, okay, well let's do something different. That's not what we want. Well, I love that exercise. It sounds like it would be a great use. We'll put, maybe we can put that URL in the show notes for people to go to for the life planning and full focus, because I do know it can be hard for people. I describe the process to people as an iterative process where you're gradually refining it, but an exercise like you described can really jumpstart it and I think get people to clarify. I love that. Let's shift maybe the last area of focus here to the other end of the spectrum of life vision, where it really comes down to execution. As I talk about in the rhythm of execution, the goals are kind of the connection point between the vision and the rhythm.


(22:35):
I find that people sometimes get a little hung up on goals because they look at all goals as being the same kind of goals. Whereas I teach people, look, there's achievement, there's A, B, C, achievement goals, behavioral goals, which is working on habits and then character goals where working on who you're becoming over the long term of your life. I think people tend to treat all goals as achievement type goals, and they put their smart framework to it and it doesn't work so great. When you're working on a behavioral habit or you're working on a long-term characteristic thing, you have a way of talking about this that I think is really enlightening and helps people practice their goal setting and their goals work in a more practical way and a more effective way. Maybe share a little bit about the different kinds of goals and how people can get unstuck if they're kind of getting in a bit of a rut around certain types of goals. Just applying a smart framework to it.


Michael Hyatt (23:38):
Well, I love your A, B, C framework. I wished I'd thought of it. It's brilliant. But I have a kind of format. I have achievement goals, and then I call them habit goals. An achievement goal is a one and done kind of goal. I teach something called the smarter framework. So I kind of built off the SMART framework, but oftentimes that R in smart means realistic. There's different versions of all this, but in doing the research, and there is literally an entire body of research on goal achievement. And one of the things I've found is that you've got to have an element of risk in the goal if it's going to command your attention, ignite your imagination, and keep your focus. I


Clate Mask (24:22):
Love that.


Michael Hyatt (24:23):
We encourage people to set a goal that's in their discomfort zone, not in the delusional zone, but in the discomfort zone. They're not quite clear how they're going to accomplish it. That's actually a good thing. The smarter framework, the E stands for exciting. It needs to be personally exciting, not something that's extrinsically motivated, something your parents want, something your spouse wants, something a business partner wants, but it's something that's driving you from the inside out. Then the last R is just, it's got to be relevant and most importantly, relevant to your season in life. That's the smarter framework for achievement goals. But then the habit goals, those are not one and done. Those are things that you want to install into your life, as you say, a behavior. This works especially for achievement goals that you can't quantify. For example, if I say I want to love my wife more, well, how would you measure that? What I can do is, I can come up with a behavior like having a weekly date night, which I've done for decades, and that's a habit goal that leads to an achievement goal. I teach that whenever possible I have a goal that is better than an achievement goal. The reason for that, and I got this insight from Scott Adams, but an achievement goal, you're kind of always in the gap.


(25:49):
In other words, every day you wake up and you haven't achieved it yet, and you just feel like it's out there somewhere, but you haven't achieved it. Where the habit goal, something you're doing daily, for example, you get that sense of win every day just by completing the habit. These two things can work really well together. For example, from writing your book, conquer the Chaos, that could be an achievement goal. I want to write this book and I want to publish it, but a habit goal can be used in service to an achievement goal in a great way. You could say, okay, here's how I'm going to do it, and that is I'm going to write 500 words a day. That's the habit goal I'm going to do, and I'm going to do that five days a week, and I'm going to do that for a hundred days. Boom, got the book.


Clate Mask (26:27):
Yep. I love it. I love your point in particular about the habit goal, having a higher status in the mind of the person than the achievement goal. Because a lot of times we get so hung up on the achievement and being able to check that box and stick the flag in the ground, but it's the habit goals that are creating that are increasing our capacity to achieve greater and greater heights. If we want to achieve more, then we need to put more emphasis on the habit goals is what I'm hearing you say. Actually more pride and satisfaction and fulfillment around the habit goals because that's what leads us to becoming better, achieving more, and ultimately getting to the destination that we want to. I love that because you, like you said, you can look at and see, okay, date night every week.


(27:23):
I hadn't quite framed it up that way for people, but it is, when I think about behavioral and character goals, they really are increasing our capacity and helping us become something better, become our best self. Thanks for that. By the way, I love your smarter framework. I wish I had read that before I wrote the book because when I wrote my book, I called it Smart with an Exclamation, and I said, specific, measurable, achievable, relevant, and relevant is to the bigger picture of what we're working on. It's a piece that leads up to something bigger. It's not realistic. That's the achievable part to what you said, but the time bound. And then I use exclamation points because it's got to be exciting. I agree with you on that part, your E, but your R is fantastic. It's got to have risk in it.


(28:12):
It's got to actually, it's got to put a little bit of the butterfly in our stomach about this is something that I get up for. I've got to become better in order to do this. I love your smarter framework. I think it's brilliant, and thank you. I commend it to the audience here, knowing that I read Michael's book a few months after I finished writing, Conquer the Chaos, and it resonated with me when you shared that excitement and risk portion of smarter. I think it's just a great way for people to practice so that they don't get in the rut of goal setting, that excitement and risk keeps the emotion and the energy it does. One of the things that my coach taught me years ago that I write about in the book is that there's a writer in the early 19th century that did a lot of really great work.


(29:03):
His name's Neville Goddard, you probably have heard him know who he is, but he says he wrote something called The Feeling is the Secret. It really teaches the principle that when we engage the feeling and the emotion in whatever it is we're doing, success is far more likely to occur. It's true in our goals, it's true in our relationships, it's true in our dreams, it's true in our prayers, our hopes, our ambitions, everything when we put that emotion into it. I love the excitement and the risk because it brings out that emotion, which makes the goal much more likely to stick and be achieved.


Michael Hyatt (29:39):
Well, the cool thing is all the goal achievement research confirms that. If you just have a goal that's in your comfort zone, that's not really a goal. That's a project. The way I like to tell people is that every goal is a project, but not every project is a goal.


Clate Mask (29:58):
That's great.


Michael Hyatt (29:58):
The difference is that a goal is something you've never done before, and it's got to be in your discomfort zone. A project is probably something you've done before and it's just part of your life now. Kind of like a habit. People say, well, how long does it take to install a habit? And sort of the conventional wisdom is 21 days what the research shows, and it takes more like a hundred days and sometimes more. But once the habit is properly installed, you don't have to have that as a goal anymore. It's just an automatic pilot.


Clate Mask (30:27):
Move on to the next one. Yeah,


Michael Hyatt (30:28):
Self automation.


Clate Mask (30:29):
Yes, exactly. I love it. One last thing, I can't help but ask this question because I think it's what causes people to not get out of their comfort zone in the goal setting. I talk about people, look, practice makes progress. I'm not interested in ‘practice makes perfection.’ That just messes us up. Frankly, it's the progress that fuels me and gets me excited, and I think is true of most of humanity. We want to make progress, and when we're practicing, we make progress. That's to be celebrated and because I in many ways try to live by that mantra, I don't worry so much when I fall short of goals and I find that it enables me to reach further and get out of my comfort zone. It's the old I'm shooting for the moon. It's okay if you hit the stars, but what do you tell people when they're bashful or inhibited in their goal setting and the riskiness of the goal because they don't want to fall short of it and they don't want to feel like they've failed. How do you help guide people through that?


Michael Hyatt (31:34):
Well, I remind them that there are no goal police. So if you don't hit your goals, nobody's going to show up and write you a ticket. They're not going to put you in jail. In fact, if you're not missing 20 to 25% of your goals, you're not aiming high enough. And I would regularly do that.


Clate Mask (31:51):
I love that, Michael. I love it. Did you hear that? People, if you're not missing 20 to 25% of your goals, then you're not aiming high enough. Love that.


Michael Hyatt (32:01):
It's okay, because again, if you don't try, you could be very successful. I had one of my, I do some personal coaching, limited amount of personal coaching for business owners, and I have one person, a client who missed her plan for her launch by it seems like it was maybe $50,000. This was like a multimillion dollar launch.


Clate Mask (32:23):
Slight rounding error.


Michael Hyatt (32:25):
Yeah. Inside, I'm thinking to myself, are you kidding me? But I had to really kind of walk her through that because she felt a little bit like she just didn't cut it right. I said, no, and we both learned this from Dan Sullivan who has book the Gap in the game, but he talks about it's all what you measured against if you're going to measure it against the goal, which oh, by the way, was a total guess, right?


Michael Hyatt (32:54):
But if you measured against your performance last year, what did we do last year? Well, we're 46% up on our goal from last year, I think.


Clate Mask (33:01):
Measuring from where you started, I love the gap and gain principle and how much you've gained from where you started instead of constantly looking at the gap where you're not there yet. It's such a great way to think of it, but I love the 20 to 25%. It reminds me of my goal planning method, each quarter I usually have three goals for each of my five areas. I have 15 goals that I'm working on, and I find that if I'm somewhere in that 10 or 12 that I've achieved, I feel great. If I'm less than 10, I'm feeling like, ah, it wasn't a great quarter, but I don't know if I've ever had all 15. That's not realistic. A lot of times I'd need to roll 'em over to the next quarter. Sometimes I realize, you know what? I kind of pulled that one out of the air, and it was a little naive in the way that I approached it. It got me excited, it got me fired up, but it was a little bit far-fetched. But I find myself perfectly satisfied to achieve 10, 11 of those 15 things, and I'd rather do that than set three or four and get all three or four. I like stretching myself. I love giving yourself permission to miss 20 to 25% of the time as an indicator that you must not be thinking big enough if you're missing less than that.


Michael Hyatt (34:28):
Well, I think it's really important that as entrepreneurs and business owners, we come to terms with the fact that we're not after perfection. Perfectionism, to me, is the mother of procrastination. I's the very thing that causes you to not attempt things because you think, oh, if I don't accomplish this, I'm a bad person. No, you're just a person that didn't accomplish that goal. Maybe you dialed a little bit too high. By the way, I appear to not get any better at this over time. I used to think, well, maybe I can nail the goal and get it exactly where it needs to be so that there's risk in it, but I can accomplish it, but I'm inevitably too low or too high, and I way underestimate how long things are going to take. That's my biggest nemesis.


Clate Mask (35:10):
Yep, I'm with you. I've experienced the same thing. To me, that's just the art of it, and it's fun to practice it. I agree with you that there's no perfectionism that really fights against the progress and the goal achievement that we want. I appreciate you sharing that. This has been a ton of fun talking. I appreciate you sharing your wisdom with our audience. To all of the listeners, I commend Michael's, his work and his stuff to you. Where can they learn more? Michael, is there a resource you have for them or someplace they can go to learn more about what you do at Full Focus?


Michael Hyatt (35:45):
Yeah. The best place to go is to fullfocus.co. not.com, but.co. Or if you use one of Google Full Focus, it'll take you right there. But our planners, the Life Focus course, our podcast, all this stuff is referenced there.


Clate Mask (35:59):
Fantastic. Fullfocus.co. You can learn more about what Michael and his company Full Focus does for business owners, entrepreneurs, helping them to get the double win, which is a similar way that I described success for entrepreneurs, balanced growth in your business and personal life. Thank you so much, Michael, for sharing your wisdom. Appreciate the opportunity to learn from you as well, and I know our audience will love this podcast episode and an opportunity to practice getting that double win in their lives through the intentionality of their life, planning, and their rhythm of execution. Until we get together next time, everybody keep growing and make sure that you are focusing on that double win as Michael Hyatt says, thanks everybody. Take care.

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