Ramon Ray’s joyful attitude and adaptability are infectious. It’s what’s propelled him so far in his career and helped him start, scale and sell multiple businesses, as well as become an in-demand keynote speaker and get his own show on USA Today network.
But Ramon didn’t always have the upbeat, positive perspective he has now. It’s taken time to cultivate, and he’s seen the fruit of it in his life and business. In this episode of Conquer the Chaos, Ramon discusses his powerful journey toward the right mindset, why it’s necessary for a successful business, and how you can merge mindset and automation to scale like you’ve never done before.
Mentioned in this episode:
Transcript
[00:00:23] Clate Mask: Welcome, everyone, to this episode of the Conquer the Chaos Podcast. I’m Clate Mask, co-founder and CEO of Keap and your host of the Conquer the Chaos Podcast. And today I've got a longtime friend, someone I've worked with in the trenches of small business in a variety of different ways. And I think we go back 15, 18 years, something like that.
[00:00:43] Clate Mask: We go way back. And so I'm really looking forward to this conversation with someone who I consider to be a great entrepreneur and who has some gems and some ways of doing things that I think are going to be really valuable. So without further ado, let me welcome Ramon Ray. Ramon, great to have you here.
[00:01:02] Ramon Ray: Hey, Clate. Thank you. I thought there was going to be a drum roll. I want to hear that play over when I wake up in the morning, I can tell my wife Ronnie, “See, listen, Clate said it.” It's good to be here, brother. Really it is. And you are a gem in my heart. I learned a lot about entrepreneurship even though I've started several companies and sold a few small ones, as you know …
[00:01:21] Ramon Ray: But I've learned a lot, Clate, being with you and the team at Keap. So I must say thank you. It's a beautiful full circle to be here today and vibe with you, learn with you, and share with the Keap community and beyond. So thank you for having me. It's a joy.
[00:01:34] Clate Mask: You bet. It's great to have you. Why don't you take just a second, tell everybody who you are, what you do, and then I'll give a little bit of the history and then we can jump into some of the keys to success for entrepreneurs.
[00:01:44] Ramon Ray: Absolutely. Today, Ramon is the publisher of ZoneofGenius.com. It's a publication very similar to Inc., Entrepreneur, Business Insider … Give credit to my peers in the industry. We provide content to small business owners and they have gazillions of people. I'm reaching to get there too. So that's what ZoneofGenius.com is. I bought the domain a few years ago, Clate, and it's growing. So that's an online publication based on events and podcasts and things of that nature. That's one. I'm happy to say I also have a show — it’s at over episode 130 or more — on USA Today network. And so that's growing. So I'm a show host as you are. And then a motivational keynote speaker. So, events that brands don't want to be boring, they want a bit of hot sauce, ketchup, salt, I don't know, whatever they want. They call me to do that. So those are a few things that I do, Clate. I’m honored to be here with you.
[00:02:35] Clate Mask: Awesome. Yeah. And Ramon, you've done events with us. I mean the history with us with Ramon is I think one of our very first Icons that we ever did.
[00:02:43] Clate Mask: I think it was maybe the second one you came to we had … It's a small group there and you and I went to dinner. I think we went to dinner with Brent Leary, if I remember right. And the three of us just talked and it was so … By the way, Brent just emailed me yesterday.
[00:02:58] Clate Mask: I’ve got to email back at him. Yeah. He's so great. That's right. That's right. So we got introduced at that event and then it just went from there. And I remember after a few years, we were looking to do more events and we said, “Hey, why don't you come join us here at Keap?”. And you came on board full time for a few years and then you said, “Hey, the entrepreneur thing, it's just so much a part of me. I got to get back and get to your Zone of Genius.” So you're back out doing that. And then we've, over the last few years, partnered on a number of different things and reconnected recently at a TSP event with Lamar Tyler and the team. And that was a ton of fun. So I know
[00:03:42] Ramon Ray: And hey, Clate, I know time is against us, but I have to bring it up. We're going to go back down memory lane, talking about Lamar. It's amazing. I remember Lamar and Ronnie on the walls of Keap and at Icon. So it's just … I just want to say it's a beautiful ecosystem. This small business world of automation and tech a bit. Keap’s not about financial software, but it's just beautiful. Mentioning Brent Leary, who I love dearly and you do too. Mentioning Lamar, who's my mentor and I'm working with him. And you and I are here. So it's a beautiful world. I just wanted to add that. I love Lamar very much as well and Ronnie.
[00:04:11] Clate Mask: You bet. I love it too. And Keap Nation where we help small businesses grow with automation is a ton of fun, as you know. So, the podcast is an important part of that. We get the message out about the keys to success. And one of those keys is automation. We'll talk a little bit about that before we do that. I want to talk about something that I've observed in you over the years that I think is just world-class.
[00:04:33] Clate Mask: And that is your ability to bring positivity and energy to any situation. Obviously, you're a motivational speaker. And so you bring this to the table. But I also know that it doesn't … Some people think that, “Oh, well, you're just so lucky you have that,” and I know that's not quite the case, especially in the trenches of entrepreneurship. There are challenges all the time. How do you bring that mindset of positivity to the table with whatever it is that you're facing? How do you do that?
[00:05:08] Ramon Ray: Yeah, I'll give two examples, Clate. Thanks for asking. You can help me unpack that because sometimes we don't even see the gift that God gives us, but I'll give two examples.
[00:05:15] Ramon Ray: First, when the pandemic happened, which we all were affected by it in some way, shape, or fashion. Clate, I immediately went into triage mode. I think that's the word medical people use when you're prioritizing. I'm like, “Okay, no money's coming.” I was refreshing the screen, Clate. South by Southwest closed. That was my little barometer. Like if South by Southwest goes, the world's over. It's like billions of people and billions of revenue. I'm like, whoa. So I just immediately had a triage. I put together an event and got some sponsors. I thought to myself, “Maybe I can drive Uber.” The point I'm making Clate is I think I have an ability just to quickly move forward. As you've probably talked about, Clate, to cry, to mourn a bit, to be frustrated and then move forward. So that's example one. Example two. Clate, is that I was in the airport just a few months ago. It was about 3 a.m. I had an early morning flight and a lady's next to me. Clate, as you know, I love talking to people and meeting new people.
[00:06:07] Ramon Ray: “Hey, ma'am. How are you? My name is Ramon. I see your bag,” and she said “Sir. It's too early.” I forgot that this energy … I just forgot, so what I'm trying to share, Clate, I think it's a little bit … You can imagine that, Clate. It’s 3 a.m., and I'm trying to network with some lady, and she's like, in a nice way, “Sir. Please, I can't. It's like, it's 3 a.m. It's too early.” Yes, that's literally what she said. But the point I'm making, Clate, and thank you for seeing that, I have no choice. Number two, I know some of my personal past of fighting issues of depression and some darkness in my life. I don't want to go back there, Clate. So it's kind of like someone who may have some addictions … Maybe friends of ours, alcohol or smoking, whatever they had. They don't want to go back to it. And you ask them, “Why do you drink so much water? Why are you in the gym?”. Well, I know who I was. So I'll pause there, but that's some of my impetus and it's not all dark, but a little bit. If I don't, I know it's waiting back there. So I choose to show up this way.
[00:07:07] Clate Mask: Ramon, that's powerful. I know who I was. I know who I was. And you know, I think that so much of what we talk about in entrepreneurship and what I talk about in the book is the dark side of entrepreneurship and what can happen. I think it's a powerful thing, a powerful example for you of all people to say that because when I see who you are and how you come at the world … And I've seen you do it with problems. I've seen you do it with events. I've seen you do it with logistical issues. I've seen you do it with exciting opportunities. You bring an energy and it's really impressive and enlightening to see that a part of that comes and the discipline of it comes because you know who you were.
[00:07:56] Clate Mask: And that I think to a certain extent, all of us as entrepreneurs, we know who we can tend to be. And what I think is really powerful about what you're saying is when you know your tendencies, then you're aware of that and you're managing that, and you're being disciplined to that. When I got that advice early in my career to know your tendencies and manage it, that was really helpful to recognize, “Okay, when I get that stress, do I turn inward? Do I try to go to something to self soothe is? What do I do? And then how do I manage that in more effective ways?”. And what I'm hearing you say is you know what those tendencies are. And you say, “Hey, I'm bringing that energy. I'm bringing that fire. I'm bringing it because that pushes away any of the dark side of entrepreneurship that can grab ahold of me.”
[00:08:51] Ramon Ray: That’s right. Clate, the decision … Again, I have my issues. I'm not perfect. You have problems. We all have problems, but it's a choice. I'll give one more small example. I was at an event. The event, Clate, it was about 2000 people. It just recently happened. And I was told, “Ramon, you need to shift how you're doing things.” Now I've been speaking for years, Clate, you know that, but this audience rarely happens.
[00:09:08] Ramon Ray: They wanted something different. The point I’m bringing out is a similar philosophy. I made a choice … slightly different answer I'm giving here, but like it was, I can sulk and cry and whine. I can say they don't know what they're talking about. They're the client. So I made a decision. So that's number two, right? Not only not wanting to go back knowing my tendencies, but the second reason also I just made a choice.
[00:09:28] Ramon Ray: Okay, “Ramon, you know, you're a speaker, but the client doesn't like this. You have 30 minutes before you're gonna go back on stage in front of 2,000 people, but I did it, Clate.” So that's another thought for somebody listening. We also have a choice how we show up. It’s not fakeness, but it's a choice to show up.
[00:09:44] Clate Mask: Love that and how we choose to show up regardless of the circumstances is in our control. We have that choice, and yet, a lot of times the tendency is “Well because of the circumstances it must be this,” and it’s like no. We can choose that way and that mental discipline to make that choice, you know, it's reflected in what you shared about your response to COVID.
[00:10:09] Clate Mask: And I remember you and I talked actually during that period of time. It was probably a month or so after COVID was declared a pandemic. And I remember the conversation you and I had. I actually remember I was sitting in my home trying to get used to this new home office thing. And I was in a different spot in my house.
[00:10:27] Clate Mask: I remember having the conversation with you and we were talking about what I was observing. Scott and I both recognized in about … I remember the pandemic was declared on a Thursday. On Friday morning, I wrote a post out to our customers and just said, “Look, I know that it feels like the world's going crazy and everybody's wondering what small businesses are going to do and here's what I know. Entrepreneurs adapt. Entrepreneurs adapt. We are adaptive creatures and we can adapt very quickly.” This is a really interesting thing that I observed during that period of time. Those who adapted the quickest were able to make good out of a very difficult situation.
[00:11:13] Clate Mask: Those who sat back and said, “I don't know what we're going to do as small businesses” were the ones who really struggled. And we had a fascinating perspective in working with tens of thousands of small businesses, seeing who was calling to cancel their subscription because they were shutting everything down versus who were calling to say, “How can I pivot to do what I do by Zoom?”
[00:11:35] Clate Mask: I remember so distinctly this one customer saying, “I teach karate. What am I going to do? People can't come get together,” but very quickly he pivoted and said, “Oh my gosh, I'm going to create this course that I've always wanted to do that my students have been asking for forever.” And he immediately went into the mode of, “We're going to create that program. We're going to charge for it. We're going to keep our doors open.” And it was so fun to see how people adapted as entrepreneurs, and what you called out, you did it in a second. And the faster we can do it …
[00:12:10] Clate Mask: You did it again in a second when you were on stage in front of 2,000 people and the client said, “Hey. We need to make an adjustment,” but what you did is you took an empowered approach to say, “Okay, I see crazy circumstances. Maybe not the circumstances I want and I'm going to make an adjustment.” And I want to just honor you because you have such a zeal for life and such a positivity about you that I think it helps you to … You don't allow yourself to get pulled into the mire and pulled into a situation where you're starting to hang your head.
[00:12:45] Clate Mask: And let's face it. We all need that. We all need that at times. And including right now, there's lots of different things going on that we could look out at those circumstances and say, “\Well, because of that, then things aren't going to go, so we're not hitting our numbers because of this or that.”
[00:12:58] Clate Mask: No, we're entrepreneurs. We figure it out. We find a way. We pivot. We adapt. And COVID taught us that those who adapted quickly were the ones who were able to not only survive, but come out of it stronger, better, with better systems, better capabilities, more robust product and service offerings, rounded out in different ways.
[00:13:19] Clate Mask: And those who hung their heads and felt like the circumstances were just too much, many of those sadly closed their doors. So I just want to point out to the audience how your energy and that zeal that you have has a very practical component to it. I'm gonna just put it this way, when crap happens, adapt.
[00:13:43] Clate Mask: I mean, stuff's gonna happen. It just will, and you adapt. What's so fun is you do it with a smile on your face. You do it with energy and the client comes away and they're happy because you made a quick pivot. Whereas you could have easily said, “Don't they know I've perfected this? I understand it. Who are they to tell me?”.
[00:14:03] Ramon Ray: And that was one of the things in my mind, that voice talking, Clate. But go ahead. I love this. You’re right.
[00:14:09] Clate Mask: No, you got all the reasons why it makes sense. By the way, in the book I talked so much about the sneaky little ego because the sneaky little ego comes in and says, “But I know this and I know this and they don't understand this. And if only they knew this,” … But because the ego is saying, “No, no, no. Keep the status quo. Keep everything the same. We don't need to go make changes here.” And so your ability to make that adjustment I think is such a crucial part of your success and that mindset that you have around positivity and quickly adapting is something that I just wish to be able to grab it and plug it into the minds of everybody that's listening.
[00:14:49] Ramon Ray: I love it. Thank you for saying that. I'll give one or two more things. I'll just say going back to the customer with the karate example is that he or she could have said … He could have said, “You know what?” … My point is, the question they asked was, “How do I use Keap and pivot?”. That was the question.
[00:15:05] Ramon Ray: Like I have a screwdriver, huh? I bought the screwdriver to do this, but you know what? The screws are not here. Let me see if I can use a screwdriver to open a can or whatever. So that's one. And then Clate, just a day ago, somebody ordered some delicious food, some Chick-fil-A. Whoever forgot to put the plates in it.
[00:15:22] Ramon Ray: It was amazing to watch the room, most of the room — and this is not just me — most of the room, we're waiting for the plates to come. Clate, you already know what I did. I went to the men's bathroom. I put the towel thing down about 50 times. I brought it out. Me and the audio video crew, right?
[00:15:40] Ramon Ray: People who know how to adapt audio video. People know how to do it. We ate and we were fine. We had the sandwich. We had the chicken nuggets. We had the sauce. We got some cups and put the chicken nuggets in a cup. People waited 30 minutes. The plates came and we were done. So it's just going back to adaptability
[00:15:57] Clate Mask: Love it. I love it. Well, you know that the number one key to success as we talk is mindset. We've underscored very effectively here what you do well and why it's so important because stuff happens, and we've got a choice. We can adapt and do it with a smile on our face and create something better or we can wish about what it would have been and get stuck in that rut. So you mentioned something about the karate example and you said it really well and it really goes to one of the other keys to success of automation and it's “Okay. Well, you've got this tool. Well, how do you use that to create more money, save more time, and produce the freedom that you want in your business?”
[00:16:41] Clate Mask: It's very interesting because most of the time people think of automation in a very mechanical way. It's kind of nonpersonal. We're always trying to help them see the difference. You've done a really good job because you have this personality and you've done a really good job of using automation to bring the personal touch.
[00:17:03] Clate Mask: Talk a little bit about that. How do you do that? How do people … When you've got a personality like you have, how do you bring that through using automation?
[00:17:13] Ramon Ray: Yeah. I’ll give one example of a way I do it. I use Keap, as you know, Clate, to do one to many. I have a newsletter that I've been going on for years that thousands and thousands and thousands of people get. Sign up for my newsletter at Ramonray.com, powered by Keap. So there’s that. And in the bottom of most of my notes and emails and even personal messages — Well, not the personal ones because it's personal — but I say, “I'm a real human. Just reply back to me.” So to your point, that's fake automation. If you get what I'm trying to say, and Clate, you're so good at helping to interpret Ramon.
[00:17:44] Ramon Ray: It's automated. I have all the triggers. I can go up there up the wazoo with the best of them. Well, not the best of them because you got some names on your team, but you know, I can do some cool stuff with Keap. But the simple automation is, “Sure. If you want to say hi — at my level, I'm small enough — just reply back.” So my point being, Clate, one of my talks is human connections in a digital world.
[00:18:05] Ramon Ray: We should use all the things. I've been using Keap for years and Zapier and all the tools, but it's okay to also add the human element to let people know. And I'll say one more thing. Clate, what's that CEO? Nike or Converse or some new CEO? At the staff meeting, he gave all the team his cell phone.
[00:18:21] Ramon Ray: Of course he has an EA, he has a calendar, automation, but then he said, “By the way, here's my cell phone,” to all the employees. I think it was maybe Reebok or something, so I hope that's helpful. Did any of that make any sense?
[00:18:34] Clate Mask: Absolutely, just keeping the personality behind the automation so that people know and they can connect with you anytime. And by the way, you are a great automator.
[00:18:44] Clate Mask: I don't know if you're going to be entering the Ultimate Automator Contest for our Let’s Grow Summit this year, but it would be awesome to see you or anybody else put their Ultimate Automator use cases out there. We're giving away a Jeep this year. We got big prizes.
[00:18:21] Ramon Ray: I saw that. That’s a huge prize, man! I’m like, “Wow! A Jeep? Lord almighty!”
[00:18:58] Clate Mask: We're doing a Jeep. I know. And even the second place prize is $10,000 and third is $5,000. But you just called out something. You said, “Look, I see the best of the automators and what they do.” It's amazing what people do with automation. It's the best part of our customer conference every year. And we kind of went away from that excitement around it for a few years, but we brought it back this year and we're really excited.
[00:19:26] Clate Mask: We've started to get the submissions in and it's just so fun to see how people are automating in their business. And for anybody who's listening, if you are not yet planning to attend our Let’s Grow Summit November 21-22 in Phoenix, you should be coming. It is amazing. You will get inspired on all kinds of ways to automate and grow your business.
[00:19:44] Clate Mask: You'll get inspired by the speakers that will be speaking on everything from goal setting to AI to marketing hacks and expertise that you would be well served to incorporate into your business. So this is going to be an awesome event. We're super excited about it. Um, hope to see you there, Ramon.
[00:20:02] Clate Mask: And if you're not submitting for the Ultimate Automator with the best of those automators out there, you probably could or should be because you're doing some great stuff with automation.
[00:20:10] Clate Mask: Okay. We're going to keep this going, but first a quick message for you. Conquer the Chaos listeners, let me talk to you straight for just a minute. You're running your business, and it dominates your mind. It can be very difficult to take a step back and see what's needed to create balance in your business and your personal life, and to create great growth and development and progress in your business and personal life.
[00:20:32] Clate Mask: One of the most powerful ways to gain the perspective that you need is to get away from things and immerse yourself in an environment where you're going to be inspired, where you can see possibilities, where you can create connections, and where you can learn and grow and develop. And I know of no better place for entrepreneurs than Keap’s Let's Grow Summit. For years. We ran this conference as just an amazing mecca for entrepreneurship. And then, truth be told, for a few years, we didn't run it. We got back to it last year, and this year, we're putting it on and it is going to be awesome. I am so excited about this.
[00:21:10] Clate Mask: And I want you as our listeners to not miss out on this event. It's going to be November 20-22 in downtown Phoenix with the main days being the 21 and the 22. You can register for it by going to keap.com/letsgrowsummit. That's https://keap.com/letsgrowsummit. And you can take advantage of our early bird registration pricing, which expires at the end of July.
[00:21:10] Clate Mask: So if you are needing a reflection time, an opportunity to take a step back, gain greater perspective, inspiration, and most of all, see what automation — the fifth key to success — can do for your business, then make sure that you attend the Let's Grow Summit. Keap.com/letsgrowsummit, November 20-22 in Phoenix. I look forward to seeing you there. Alright, now back to our chat.
[00:21:58] Clate Mask: So yeah, that's the Ultimate Automator contest.
[00:22:01] Ramon Ray: Awesome. Awesome. I love it. I love it. And we're adapting, adapting indeed. Clate, listen, I think what's interesting is that small business owners don't understand — and they do understand things to Keap — but automation is so powerful.
[00:22:11] Ramon Ray: And I like what you said, Clate. There's the technical automations we can do to win a top prize. But I think there's other things in our lives that we can automate as well. So I'm excited about it, Clate.
[00:22:25] Clate Mask: Big time. Yeah, no, no doubt. I'm super appreciative of you for spending a little bit of time talking about how you approach things with mindset. And of course I always appreciate the message you share about how to personalize with your automation and doing things as simple as, ”Hey, I'm a real person. Connect with me here.”
[00:22:45] Clate Mask: It's amazing how just that simple call to action can build relationships and create that personal touch that we all appreciate in small business. So I love that. And I hope to see you at Let’s Grow Summit on November 21-22, whether you apply or not for the Ultimate Automator. You know that we're going to see some amazing contestants there that share why they should be, essentially, the automator of the year at Keap. So that's going to be a lot of fun.
[00:23:11] Ramon Ray: No, absolutely. It's going to be fun. I'll give one little tip myself as well. The thing I do for events is when people register for events, I build FOMO — fear of missing out. So I say, “Thank you for registering. Hey, send me your picture.” When they send me their picture … a little bit of automation goes in there, but then a little bit of back and manual. I post that picture on social media and it gets people wanting to come. So that's just Ramon's tip for how I use Keap for automation and then get people to send their picture and then build in FOMO to get more attendees. There you go. Back to you, Clate.
[00:23:41] Clate Mask: I love it. Fantastic. That's such a great point you're making there. A lot of times when we talk about automation, the name of the game is plugging the holes in the leaky bucket that, let's face it, is small business chaos. The small business chaos is all the holes that we've got in the leaky bucket that makes it really hard to grow our business.
[00:24:00] Clate Mask: And you just gave one of the holes that consistently exists inside of a small business. You've got a commitment from a customer or an attendee, a member, whatever it is. In this case, you're talking about an event, and they say they're coming. And yet, we all know that the show up rate is not the same as the registration rate.
[00:24:19] Clate Mask: And there's a big hole that exists there. And how do you plug that hole with automation? Well, you just gave a really great example of how to do that. So, thank you for that. That's one of the ways that small businesses can grow with automation is plugging that hole that exists between registration and show up rate.
[00:24:37] Ramon Ray: absolutely. Thank you. Love it. Love it. You're welcome.
[00:24:37] Clate Mask: Well, where can people learn more about you, Ramon? You quickly mentioned your newsletter, but I want to give people an opportunity to get to know you better if they wanna go a little deeper into what you teach and some of your world and Zone of Genius. Where can they go?
[00:24:50] Ramon Ray: Sure. If you wanna see how to find Ramon and you wanna see how I’m using Keap as well, check out ZoneofGenius.com, ZoneoifGenius.com and RamonRay.com and I look forward to seeing you there, Keap community. Thank you. Thank you, Clate for having me here.
[00:25:09] Clate Mask: All right. Thank you, Ramon. Thanks so much. I'm going to take away a really powerful line you said: “I know who I was,” and I think that there's a value in that for everybody who's listening here. As you think about that and managing our tendencies and getting our mindset right, taking the actions that establish clear identity as to who we are to make sure that it's the positive version of ourselves who we want to be. It's how we want to be showing up in the world.
[00:25:32] Clate Mask: You're a great example of that Ramon. I appreciate our friendship and I appreciate you investing a little time here with our community today.
[00:25:38] Ramon Ray: Thanks, Clate.
[00:25:40] Clate Mask: Well, thank you, everybody. That's another episode of the Conquer the Chaos Podcast. I hope that you are doing amazing things in your business to grow. I hope you'll take some of these concepts of mindset and automation, two of the important keys to success for entrepreneurs. And until next time, keep growing.